April 14, 2026

So Long Fred....Hello Josh!!

So Long Fred....Hello Josh!!
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Season 17

GS1029 April 14, 2026 Our 'guest' is journalist, author and producer, Josh Karp, who, in 2010, wrote “Straight Down The Middle” about his non-traditional golf instruction journey, largely based on people he heard on Golf Smarter. Recently, Josh wrote to Fred about coming on the show again to promote a golf podcast he was about to launch. After a couple conversations, it was decided that if Golf Smarter was to continue, based on his journalistic curiosity and sense of humor, Josh was the perfect person to take over. In this first of two episodes together, we meet Josh, find out what's he's been up to, and learn about why he wants to take the reins on our show.
Next week, we'll both interview Jim Waldron, and then Josh will be the host moving forward.
So as not to shake things up too much, Golf Smarter will continue twice each week. Tuesday's will be new episodes with Josh. On Fridays we’ll continue to rerun Fred's archived Mulligans episodes.
I hope you’ll check him out and continue to listen. Thanks so much for your support and friendship over the years. As Fred moves into his retirement, his focus will be on playing and practicing a lot more golf.

If you have a question about whether or not Fred is using any of the methods, equipment or apps we’ve discussed, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write because Fred will get back to you. Either write to golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com or click on the Hey Fred button, at golfsmarter.com

WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm andre Atto. I'm from Henderson, Nebada, and I

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play at Revere Golf Club and this is Golf Smarter.

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Golf Smarter number one twenty nine.

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I want to continue your work. We're different people but

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a lot of commonality, but we both like to talk

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about golf. And the people I have talked to for

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episodes that I've recorded, a lot of it is about

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different approaches to how to swing the club. But what's

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interesting to me is how to improve your game. But

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what's also interesting to me is the stories of the

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people behind what they did and how they came to

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doing that, and that is really fascinating to me. And

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I love the different viewpoints people bring to it. It's

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like anything. If it's movies, if it's baseball, if it's politics,

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everybody's got their unique take on it. And so the

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point isn't the technical stuff, because I'm not qualified to

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be a technical golf person. But I'm so frustrated by

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the world of you got to be in the right position,

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you got to do this, you got to do that,

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where you get caught up in trying to be perfect

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and trying to consciously do things, and so that's a

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lot of what the show is going to be about

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is people talking about practical advice about here's a couple

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drills that you don't need to take lessons.

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So long, Fred, Hello, josh Ah, there's a chain to come.

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This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower your score and

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raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Welcome back to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Josh, Hey, Fred, thanks for having me.

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Well, you know it's a little bit more than that being.

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Here it is, but thank you for having me on regardless.

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Yes, well you know you reached out to me recently

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saying I don't know if you remember me. I was

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on your show in twenty ten after I wrote a

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book called Straight down the Middle, and I'm like, of

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course I remember you. That was a fun that was

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a fun book and really entertaining for me, a really

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entertaining interview.

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Oh well, no, Ill, I recall having a very good

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time when we talked last time.

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We really did. We really did. So you I need

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to talk to the audience for a minute if you

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don't mind, Josh, I mean step The reason Josh is

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here today is we're making a change here in Golf Smarter.

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I want to thank all the Golf Smarter community, the

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ambassadors and the and golf smarters. Josh, don't know if

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you ever heard that term, but we call our golf

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itself Golf's martyrs. I'm a golf martyr, yeah right, and

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which kind of translated to golf Smarter at some point,

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but it went turned into golf Smarters. I want to

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thank everybody for all their support over the years, and

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also their support for or this time that I've taken off.

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I've been off since early December. We've been playing the

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old episodes, and in that time, I was trying to

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figure out what's next for me because I turned seventy

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last August and I knew that I was going to

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be retiring at seventy, but I didn't know what to

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do about the podcast. I was really torn, do I

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walk away from it? Am I done? You know? Ever

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since the episode four hundred, I've been going, yeah, I

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think I'm getting close to me And here we are

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at episode one twenty nine. An episode one thousand with

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Jim Nantz was probably the peak of my podcast experience,

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and I've been just trying to figure out what's next,

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what's next? And then Josh came to me and said, hey,

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I'm thinking of starting a golf podcast. Maybe I can

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come on your show and promote it. And I'm like, oh, man,

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you just missed me because I'm not doing the interviews anymore.

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Last interview I did was in actually I did it

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in October, we published it in December, and I haven't

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done one since. And it seems like it's been like

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six months as I've done an interview. And I suggested

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to Josh, you know, if you're going to start a

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golf podcast now, it's very different than when I started

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it in twenty two thousand and five, because when I started,

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there was like two other golf podcasts and those quickly disappeared.

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And so here we are with Golf Smarter is the

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longest running golf podcast out there, and we've built this

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wonderful global audience of people who love Tony Manzoni as

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much as I do, who keep listening to the old episodes,

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which I'm truly grateful for. And I said, so, if

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you're going to start a golf podcast, it's going to

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be at least five years for you can either generate

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any revenue or build enough of an audience to generate

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some revenue. So maybe you'd like to take over Golf Smarter.

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And so I started reading Josh's book again and I'm like, wait,

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this is Golf Smarter, and I need to ask you, Josh,

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what was your the journey that you wrote about in

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the book Straight Down the Middle, which was your second

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of three books. Correct, yes, but you're so far your

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only golf book.

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My only golf book, yes, the only ones. I'd like

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to say, the only time I'll ever be paid to

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play golf in well, hopefully not.

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But I started reading the book again, I'm like, my goodness,

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this is like my voice. This is so interesting to

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me that he's on a journey that I feel like

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I've been on for a long time, on different ways

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of approaching golf instruction, a lot of mental game stuff.

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And I said, you know, maybe you should just take

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over the show, and he was kind of your eyes

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when I when I suggest yes, you kind of bugged

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out of your head. And we've had multiple conversations since then.

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And this episode here is to introduce the new host

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of Golf Smarter, Josh Carp.

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First of all, I can only hope that I will

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be at this as successfully and as long as as you.

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Were, and you being here as long as that.

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Oh yeah, well, you know, a thousand episodes is a

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fairly daunting, daunting hill to climb. But but no, thank

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you so much for this opportunity. You know, I've always

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loved the show, and like I said, I had the

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best time, you know, when I was on fifteen years

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ago now, which is hard April.

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Yeah, and then he has played as a Mulligan episode

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as number one hundred and thirty three.

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So that's and your memory is killing me with the.

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Kidding. I get lost in conversations. I have a spreadsheet

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with everything.

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But no, I mean, I'm really honored that you would

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even think of me to do this, and I'm really

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excited to have the opportunity to carry on you know,

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your your work and such a great brand, and you

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know with just you know, I'm this, as we both know,

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came out of the blue kind of right. It was

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just just an email led to this, and and I'm

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really excited and uh and and like I said, it

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is carrying on a really a really great brand and

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a really great show. And I just hope I can

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do as good a job as you've done with it

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over all this time.

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Well, that's why I feel so confident in the in

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this move, because I've listened to a couple of your

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other interviews and we got to establish what you do.

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I mean, like I approach this show as a recording

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engineer who had the right equipment, with a lot of questions,

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and it just you know. And then sometimes even when

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I told people I'm a golf journalist, I would do

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the air quotes on journalists and cringe when I said

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it because I never really felt like I was a journalist.

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I was just a guy doing a podcast, which I

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never anticipated the podcasting would be ubiquitous to like the planet.

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People are like, oh yeah, good lord, Yes, yeah.

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It's everywhere. And now like when I was coming through radio,

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it's if you had a radio show but you also

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had a column in the newspaper, or if you wrote

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a book, or if you were on TV. It's like, wow,

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cross media.

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Right right now.

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In that cross media conversation, people add, and I host

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a podcast.

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Right well, and nobody's writing a column for the newspaper anymore.

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I mean, because all the you know that it's unbelievable

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that we've witnessed this huge change in the way the

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world operates, you know, media wise, I mean as well

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as otherwise. But just you know, I was talking to

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somebody the other day and I was like, either there

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will be no newspapers in ten years or there will

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be such a backlash that we're all going to be

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reading the newspaper again, because it's just such a you know,

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it was such I mean, such a staple you know,

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of journalism and of what being you know, being alive

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in America. Wasn't that time, right, I mean that was

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and now it's just everything changes so fast. So it

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is now there are a lot more a lot more

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podcasts than there are guys who are writing columns for

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the Chicago Sun Times or the same.

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You would believe the number of podcasts that are generated

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by AI voices. Oh massive, there's like and so I

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can testify here to everybody, Josh and I are real.

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They would not create AI like me.

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For sure, or me. But the fact is you're more

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than You're not a recording engineer. You're a journalist U

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and a writer and a producer and actually, can I

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use the word journalism professor.

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Let's say, instructor, a journalism instruct since I have no

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officialstigious university. Yes, I teach. I not as much anymore,

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but for I occasionally teach journalism at Northwestern and I've

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taught for years. I was like teaching multiple classes there

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every semester. Yeah, and I'm I'm a I'm an actual journalist,

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and I think I'm you know, got to the point. Yeah,

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I do a lot of print work or I have

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for you know, different magazines. I've written for Vanity Fair

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and Esquire and uh and Playboy, and I've had a

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pretty regular gig at a at a thing called Airmail,

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which is which is an electronic magazine that was started

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by Graydon Carter who used to run Vanity Fair and uh,

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you know and that. And it's funny because I really,

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you know, as far as golf writing, I mean, I

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really I wrote. I wrote the book straight down the middle.

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And before that, I used to write for Links magazine,

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which was, by the way, a fun gig, and that

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was I got paid to play golf for that too,

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and that was really fun, you know, getting to go

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around and play you know, different you know, courses and

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write about them. But but mostly I mean I write

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about popular culture. I write about the making of movies. Uh,

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usually the making of really kind of screwed up movies

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like Caligula or or the Last Movie, which was Dennis

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Hopper's follow up to Easy Writer That Like, and he

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ended his career just as it was, as he was

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the most important director in Hollywood for five minutes. And

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then just weird little stuff. I I you know, I

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wrote a thing about the more recently the Burt Reynolds

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Dinner Theater in Jupiter, Florida, and all the all the

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crazyness that went on there. But yeah, so I mean,

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I'm I'm you know. And then I've written books. I

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wrote a book about the making of the Orson Wells

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movie The Other Side of the Wind, which was kind

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of this insane ten year making of this movie that

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he never finished.

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I would say that book.

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The name of the book is called Orson Wells's Last Movie,

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not my choice. They always changed my titles. But uh,

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and then and then my other book is called A

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Feudal and Stupid Gesture, which is about Doug Kenny and

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the guys who started National Lampoon Magazine and made Animal

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House in Caddyshack, and then Doug, who was kind of

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the genius behind all of it, very mysteriously fell off

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of a cliff in Hawaii and died at a young age,

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and nobody ever kind of really knew what happened to him.

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But you know, so it's I'm I'm really a kind

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of a pop culture and kind of Hollywood you know,

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making of films type writer. But you know, I've always

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I mean, I've been a golfer since I was about thirteen.

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Got one on me there too.

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Well, No, I mean my interest in golf is you know,

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I started playing when I was a teenager, played on

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my high school team, was not the number one player

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on that team, played on a very bad Division III

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college team, and was certainly not the number one player

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on that team. But I've been kind of, you know,

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had this whole thing of being like stuck for many

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years as about a you know today, a Division three

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golfer is you know probably you know, a single digit

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you know, or scratch player, you know, McAllister College in

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nineteen eighty, eighty five and eighty six. You know, I

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was like a thirteen handicap and I was good enough

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to be the you know, number five guy in a

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team where probably our best player was a five. But

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I I just I've always loved golf and it's always

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been kind of such a The people involved in the

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game have always fascinated me. The different approaches to the game,

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you know, I have always interested me, and I just

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I love the history of the game and I love, uh,

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you know, kind of trying.

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You know.

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My my great dream, which will never come to be realized,

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is to look like Sam Snead when I sing a

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golf club, which having been at a uh what's it

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called a simulator with one of my kids the other

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day and they replayed my swing and I was like,

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that is not Sam Snead. That is that is decidedly me.

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So no matter how good it feels like I'm swinging,

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you know, I'm always kind of on the quest to

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have a better swing, you know. I just I just

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love the game and I love, you know, everything about it,

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and uh so I'm really excited to be able to

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talk about it, you know, and you know, and do this,

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you know, going forward.

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Josh, I want to I want to discuss your book,

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your second book, Straight down the Middle, which came out

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in twenty ten is, which is how we first met.

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Because there are many people in that book that have

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been featured on Golf Smarter.

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Our guests, our guest lists overlap or by by by

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by chapter's overlap with your guests.

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Yes, right, And actually the next episode we're going to

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do next Tuesday. Next week, we'll be with Jim Waldron,

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who's not only featured in your book and been featured

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many times on Golf Smarter, but he's giving me golf

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lessons right right, taking for the first time, I'm taking

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golf lesson. So anyway, we're gonna both interview him, and

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then after that it's going to be Golf Smarter will

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cantinue twice a week each each beginning of the week,

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each Tuesday will be Golf Smarter with Josh carp and

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Corrected Mistakes are we calling? Are we saying that.

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Golf correct mistakes golf? Which comes just to clarify for

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everybody that please it. When I was kind of working

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on doing a podcast, you know, golf podcast before you

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and I talked, I had, you know, it was kind

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of come looking around for titles and and you know,

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wanted to have something that was related to kind of

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the history of the game and especially the history regarding

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the swing, because I interviewed a lot of people about

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various players throughout history, various approaches to the swing itself,

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and you know how how you know how guys like

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you and I can get better. And obviously the one

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person everybody looks to is is Ben Hogan, and and

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he famously said that a golf swing is a collection

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of correct mistakes. And I, for my game that certainly

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was applicable. And so I kind of want to do

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invoke you know, I wanted to invoke the history, and

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I want to invoke you know, the iconic uh, these

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iconic figure So it's gonna be Golf Smarter's correct Mistakes

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on Tuesdays, on Tuesdays and Fridays, right, Fridays will be

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my old episodes.

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We'll continue with that because we're only up to like

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halfway through what I did. And you know, again, mulligans

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are just episodes that are more that are most relevant today,

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which is basically golf instruction. We don't look at rules

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or tournament events, which we rarely talked about anyway, but

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golfers we can talk about always as we continue to do,

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whether we're talking about Ben Hogan or our Bobby Jones

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or Tiger Woods, which I just a moment on Tiger Woods.

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How ironic was it that the week that Tiger had

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this another accident in a car. And we don't have

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to go on and on about that too many people

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have already, But that week, as we're replaying all the

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old Tony Manzoni episodes, that week the episode was called

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if Tiger called Tony for help, what would he say?

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And it was about the golf swing, not about the

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Battle's drunk driving quiz, because Tony Manzoni is partying time

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in the sixties and so he's well aware of that too.

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Sure, yeah, that's no. The whole thing with it's really yeah,

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I don't, I know, we don't want to spend the

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time time on Tiger, but it's you know it, you know,

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not to make light of any of it, but I

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remember when his whole thing happened with his wife and

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you know and all that, and I my my major

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recollection was, you know, how it was being covered, like,

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you know, there were helicopters flying over his house and

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there are news trucks, and I thought, this guy has

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just gotten caught cheating on his wife. And he has

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now stuck in his house with his wife, his mother,

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his mother in law, and probably a bunch of lawyers.

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And I was like, for any of us who envy

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the life of Tiger Woods, I was like, this is good.

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I'm like, whatever he's got, this has got to really

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be dampening that entire experience. I mean, you know, it's

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it's interesting because he's such a.

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Disciplined you know, kind of all that kind of all

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went out the window after his father passed. Yeah, yeah,

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I went nuts, yeah the way.

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And it's odd because you know, I was talking to

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somebody and we were talking about a different athlete, but

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I was like, you know he I mean, obviously his

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dad was a huge influence on him, but yeah, there's

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kind of that. You're Marv Marinovich. Todd Marinovich's dad, the

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quarterback for the USC who was raised to be a

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quarterback and never had a piece of cake and never

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had a McDonald's hamburger and was very good at USC,

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played for the Raiders, just totally lost it once he

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kind of got out in the world. And I think

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that's a really hard I mean, I think you have

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to be and I think Tiger is a very mentally

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strong person, obviously, because on the golf course, you know,

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nobody has I've you know, Nicholas maybe you know, has

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had that kind of mental toughness. But like you know,

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it's it's it's not a super balanced upbringing when you

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are under that kind of you know, just when you're

353
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being driven to be something by an outside force. You

354
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know who's who's your parent. And that's nothing against his dad.

355
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I mean, it's just you see it everywhere. I mean,

356
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you see it on the little league fields, you see it, right,

357
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and you know, youth hockey. I mean, my kids all

358
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played sports, and there are all these people you know who,

359
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:15.359
especially when they're young, who think, you know, oh, you know,

360
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home run, he's you know, he's Willie Mays, you know,

361
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and it's and it and all this intensity gets thrown

362
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at a kid and and I think, you know, as

363
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talented as he was and all that, you know, I mean,

364
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it's got to it can't have been easy to grow

365
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up with somebody driving you. And I think once that

366
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goes away, it gets very hard to hold it together.

367
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And you don't mean driving the car for you, No,

368
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not driving now. He needs now he needs a driver. Yes, now, Tiger,

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you are so lucky that you didn't get hurt or well,

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you didn't hurt somebody, because God forbid that Tiger Woods

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ends up in prison for the rest of his life.

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Oh yeah, no, I mean that's yeah.

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I mean, And I and I last thing I'll say

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is I you know, it's funny, you know, because you know,

375
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you look at people and you think they all have

376
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you know, like Tiger, and you go, oh my god,

377
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what I wouldn't give, you know, to have that kind

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of talent, that kind of money.

379
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And remember Charles Barkley thing about b don't make me

380
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as your role model, you can use me as a

381
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goal model. I always loved that. I always love that

382
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because you don't want to be Charles Barkley, but.

383
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No achieve his success, right. And I and I guess

384
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I you know, I feel I feel for Tiger, you know,

385
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I mean, I really do, because because I you know,

386
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it's just because we love him, yeah, right, I mean,

387
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and there's never nobody I mean, you know, it's it's

388
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like Michael Jordan, you know, watching a guy like that,

389
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you just watch them and it's like you're seeing something

390
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you're never going to see.

391
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Again, right, right, all right, So so that's not where

392
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:02.000
we were going. I want to talk about straight your book,

393
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Straight down the Middle, which I'm thoroughly enjoying. Again, I

394
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highly recommend people to get to know Josh, read this book,

395
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you know, and then follow the podcast and you'll, you know,

396
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.599
it'll you'll ease right into it. So what why was

397
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:23.359
it feeling like I was listening I was reading about

398
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golf smarter? I mean, with all these people, is that

399
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something that was behind it? Or well? I think am

400
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:32.440
I fishing for a compliment here?

401
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.799
No? I mean I know, first of all, I mean

402
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.200
I think there is this this you know, way in

403
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.440
which you and I certainly overlapped and our interests and

404
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.559
the people we connected with. Yeah, but I think you

405
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:47.799
and I, you know, as we've discussed kind of off

406
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the air, have a lot in common and uh, you know,

407
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and I just think, you know, it's it's funny. I mean,

408
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:02.400
you know, the book Resident they did with a certain

409
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.160
group of people, and it's very interesting, you know, for

410
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.759
the first doesn't happen so much anymore. But I'd say

411
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.599
the first ten years after it came out, I would

412
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:17.920
get an email, you know, once a month from somebody

413
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.079
who said, you know, I read your book, and this

414
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.319
actually is is kind of hilarious in some ways because

415
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they would say, you know, I read your book and

416
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.839
I went out and I had a hole in one

417
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:32.960
on the second hole, my first hole, And they'd say,

418
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:35.359
and I knew, and I have never had a hole

419
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:39.880
in one. Wow in my life certainly, But I mean,

420
00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.039
I would say that either a hole in one or

421
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.319
shot the best round of their life. And I number one.

422
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.160
Will just give you a disclaimer as someone who is

423
00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:51.400
about a twelve handicaper, I've improved my game by about

424
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.200
five or six strokes when I was doing the book.

425
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.079
I am no one to be giving anyone golf advice.

426
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:03.599
So it was you know, but it was Yeah, the

427
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.759
book really it was so much fun, and it kind of,

428
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:08.880
in a weird way, wrote itself because it was just

429
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:13.640
this journey to try to find alternative ways to improve

430
00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.440
your golf game, kind of beginning with you know, the

431
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:22.079
really beginning with Michael Murphy's. Uh, the idea came from

432
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:23.799
the fact that you have three of the best selling

433
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.519
golf books ever written. Or then Golf by Joe parent

434
00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:31.759
in a book. What yes, he's in the book.

435
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.279
He is in the book book, and also episode one

436
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:35.480
of Golf Smarter.

437
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.359
And I didn't know he was your first guest.

438
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:39.720
He was Episode one.

439
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:44.079
That's that's a good first guest, by the way, it's

440
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:48.279
a good gut And then Michael Murphy's Golf in the

441
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:53.200
Kingdom and the Legend of Bag of Vance by Stephen Pressfield,

442
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.960
all of which have something in common, which is that,

443
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:01.039
you know, here's those you know, I said, I'm like

444
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.839
a pop culture writer, and I was like, okay, here's

445
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.960
this game that I have always associated with, you know,

446
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:10.279
plaid pants, people my dad like, who were my dad's friends?

447
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:16.000
And Pat Summer all and here it is the three

448
00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:17.920
of you know, maybe the five best selling golf books

449
00:26:17.920 --> 00:26:22.799
ever are all rooted in Eastern spirituality. And and I

450
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.440
had this just totally hilarious experience I had. There's a

451
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:32.960
guy named sak Young Rimpochet who is leader of I

452
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:35.440
can't even remember what the name of the organization is anymore,

453
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:40.039
but a big Buddhist organization in the US. And I

454
00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:43.319
went to a meditation seminar on a Friday night with

455
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my wife and as I think I say in the book,

456
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.480
I was the only person. They're wearing a white sox hat,

457
00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.799
which immediately labeled me as like, you know, the absolute outsider.

458
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.319
And we did, you know, we did meditation and stuff,

459
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.000
and I'm like sitting there going You're like, I just

460
00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:59.640
want to go eat. I want to you know, go

461
00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:03.200
see a movie. You know, I couldn't do anything to

462
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.000
get out of there. And you know, I'm trying to

463
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:06.440
be nice, you know, and be a good boy for

464
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:10.839
my wife and not act like a child. And when

465
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:14.599
we go around the room after a meditation session, somebody says,

466
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:16.640
the guy says, you know, talk each of you talk

467
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.079
about how you know, meditation has impacted your life, and

468
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:27.240
everybody's gaining some deep understanding of the world. And they

469
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.079
get to me and I had been meditating for about

470
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:30.440
six months and I was like, you know, it's taking

471
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.200
a couple of strokes off my golf game. And they

472
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.839
all looked at me like, oh, you know, like this

473
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:36.799
ye'ar they're about to like, you know, all the Buddhists

474
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.799
were going to stone me for mentioning golf. And the

475
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:42.720
guy who led the thing said, well, you know, the

476
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:46.400
sock young is an avid golfer. And I thought, oh,

477
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.720
that's a great magazine article, right, I'll go, you know,

478
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:51.000
and it'll be like the you know, Dali Lama thing

479
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.359
in Caddyshack, and he'll be wearing robes. And of course

480
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.160
that never happened. But I started thinking about this and

481
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:01.279
I thought, you know, this could be such a fun

482
00:28:01.279 --> 00:28:04.240
book because there's so much alternative golf instruction out there,

483
00:28:05.079 --> 00:28:08.720
and so I, you know, I just started finding people

484
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:13.400
who had kind of esoteric, kind of Eastern tinged methods

485
00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:16.240
of teaching golf. And of course that involved Joe Parent,

486
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:21.920
that involved Jim Waldron, involved Jamie Zimron and I'm tried.

487
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:24.119
I don't even know who else is on your show

488
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.640
that I worked.

489
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.599
With, but Michael Murphy was mentioned.

490
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:31.039
Yeah, Michael Murphy. Michael Murphy I did not play with,

491
00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:33.960
but but I certainly was inspired by his. And the

492
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.559
final chapter though, is U is an outing at h

493
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:46.680
AT in Wisconsin at h Well. I talked to Fred.

494
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.759
He did not work with me, but he was very

495
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:53.759
very kind. But I I went to Whistling Straits and

496
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:57.799
played in an outing with the Shivas Iron Society and

497
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.440
that was the final chapter. So that was kind of,

498
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:04.000
you know, Michael Murphy inspired thing, and that was really

499
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:06.519
that was a really great experience. Man, it was just

500
00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.519
such a great group of people, all from different walks

501
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:12.880
of life, all of whom have read this book, you know,

502
00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:18.000
Murphy's book and had it impassed. Yeah.

503
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.119
Yeah. And Ben Klein is now the is now running

504
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:25.000
Shivas Iron Society. Played golf with him down in Carmel

505
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:30.119
about two years ago. Okay, and so yeah, still love

506
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:35.920
Shiva's Iron. Still love the group and the people associated. Yeah,

507
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:38.279
and so this is why, you know, to me, I

508
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.519
never thought of it as, oh, we're going to take

509
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:46.079
an Eastern philosophy view of golf. It just kind of

510
00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.799
worked out that way when I started thinking about the

511
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.680
mental aspects of it, and it all kind of fell

512
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.400
into place as we did over the years.

513
00:29:56.759 --> 00:30:00.359
Yeah. Well, yeah, the mental game stuff, you know, it's

514
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:04.279
and you know, the mental as far as my mental game,

515
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.440
if I have one, has certainly evolved over time, but

516
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.920
it really that stuff has really remained the core of it.

517
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.039
I mean I learned things like, you know, when you

518
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:17.039
triple bogia hole that you have to you can't go

519
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:19.200
to the next hole and think I Am going to

520
00:30:19.880 --> 00:30:22.519
kick the crap out of this ball and make up

521
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.000
for all those strokes with one shot, which I have

522
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.559
had all have done, right, you know, and so you know,

523
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:34.000
and I'm able to, you know, kind of stop myself

524
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:37.359
and say, you know, I remember it's just a game.

525
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:40.759
I remember, it's just a nice walkouts walk in nature.

526
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:42.920
I remember that it's time with friends that I'm supposed

527
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:47.079
to be enjoying myself. I don't. I still have, but

528
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.920
I don't, you know, frequently drive home after you know,

529
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:54.319
shooting a bad round and you know, doing that whole

530
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:56.720
thing where I'm like, I'm never playing this game again.

531
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:58.400
I don't know what I was thinking. But I used

532
00:30:58.440 --> 00:30:59.839
to do that. I mean, I used to beat myself

533
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:02.960
up up on the course like you cannot believe. And

534
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:05.519
after I played, I like, you know, and what's the

535
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:11.200
consequence of my my shooting an eighty five or ninety three?

536
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:14.359
You know, it means nothing to the world, but it was,

537
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.799
you know, it gets you out of yourself to take

538
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.799
that different perspective.

539
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.880
Well, I really do hope that listeners will go out

540
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:31.519
and buy the book. I'd like to see a bump

541
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.079
in your sales on the book. But also it's just

542
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.000
a great way to understand where the where this podcast

543
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:41.920
is going to go in the future and where is

544
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:43.799
it going to go? What do you what do you

545
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.680
envision the future of golf smarter to be?

546
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:52.240
Well, you know, I want to continue your work and

547
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.599
it's just going to be me doing it with maybe

548
00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.160
a little more. Yeah, we're different people, but like I

549
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:03.200
said before, you and I have a lot of commonality

550
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:06.440
and we both like to talk and we like to

551
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.640
talk about golf, and so what I really want to do,

552
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:11.880
you know, I mean a lot a lot of you know,

553
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.400
the people I have talked to, you know, for episodes

554
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:17.839
that I've recorded, you know, a lot of it has

555
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.680
kind of swing, you know, about different approaches to how

556
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.480
to swing the club. But it's also just about the

557
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.480
game and it's really about getting you know, what's not

558
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:29.039
is what's interesting to me is how to improve your game.

559
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:30.960
But what's also interesting to me is the stories of

560
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.839
the people behind absolutely what they did and how they

561
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.079
came to doing that. And it's you know, and that

562
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.039
is really fascinating to me, you know, because you just

563
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.480
have one thing that always blows me away is several

564
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:46.240
of the people I've interviewed, you know, they say, oh, yeah,

565
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:47.960
I picked up the game at sixteen, and you know,

566
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:49.880
by the time I was seventeen and a half, I

567
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.519
was shooting sixty eight and I just think, way, way,

568
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.079
way wait, whoa, whoa, whoa. And then you have people

569
00:32:56.240 --> 00:32:59.359
like you know, Crystal Garcia, who I interviewed and who

570
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:03.519
I think even viewed as well, who was shooting one hundred,

571
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:09.000
and you know Red Hogan's I'm you know, Red Hogan's

572
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:13.079
Five Lessons revamped his own swing based you know, and

573
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.279
his theories based on that, and is now teaching golfer living.

574
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:23.880
And I love the different viewpoints people bring to it

575
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.359
because it's, you know, it's it's like anything, you know,

576
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:29.400
I mean, it's you know, if it's movies, if it's baseball,

577
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:33.440
if it's politics. Everybody's got their unique take on it.

578
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.279
And so it's really interesting to hear, you know, like

579
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.880
and just use Kristo's an example, you know, my whole

580
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.000
their last you know, probably from nineteen ninety five to

581
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.599
two thousand and fifteen, I can't tell you how many

582
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:50.599
times there had somebody say, oh, well, he's coming over

583
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:53.559
the top. That's his problem. He's coming over the top.

584
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:58.839
And you know, he teaches, he says, his whole thing

585
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.559
is He's like if you really watch videos of you know,

586
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.680
the great golfers of the twentieth century. They're all coming

587
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:08.519
over the top. And the point isn't the technical stuff

588
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:13.480
because I'm not a technical you know, I'm not qualified

589
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:18.519
to be a technical golferson, but just how it takes,

590
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:23.559
you know, it's not so much about whether you're I'm

591
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:26.519
so frustrated by the world of you know, you got

592
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:28.079
to be in the right position, you got to do this,

593
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:30.800
you got to do that. Where you get caught up

594
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:37.119
in trying to be perfect while you're playing and trying

595
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:41.960
to consciously do things, and what really is is it's

596
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:46.239
about kind of learning different skills that just you find

597
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:48.239
your swing. And so that's a lot of what the

598
00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:50.239
show is going to be about is people talking about

599
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:54.920
different ways they've found their swings and their methods and

600
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:59.239
where they came from and how they got there, and

601
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.360
then you know, just kind of some real practical advice

602
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:05.079
about you know, here's a couple drills that you know,

603
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.920
you don't need to take lessons, because that is one thing.

604
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:12.960
I mean, how much golf instruction is out in the

605
00:35:12.960 --> 00:35:16.519
world on YouTube, oh my gosh and Instagram, and it's

606
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:22.639
all contradictory and so much. Yeah, yes, I.

607
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.320
Mean you can't you know these That's the thing is

608
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.280
like I always had people I can't tell you how

609
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:30.239
many instructors I've had on the show that said I

610
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:33.440
found Ben Hogan's secret. Well, who am I to dispute it?

611
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:37.079
And I think that that one of the things that

612
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:41.079
you said rings true for both of us, which is

613
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:43.760
why I thought you'd be such a great host for

614
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:46.840
the show, is that we're not qualified to teach. We're

615
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.840
here to learn. And I think that that it is

616
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.840
become a voice to a lot of people going. I

617
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.000
don't want to hear what the odds are or what

618
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.679
the payouts were to last week's tournament or next week.

619
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:05.119
I don't want to have two instructors talked talking to

620
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:09.480
themselves and nobody understanding what they say. I mean, I

621
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.320
just wanted to have a show that allowed me to learn,

622
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:21.800
but also gave voice to the recreational golfer. Right, And

623
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:24.760
so I think that you know, I'm a twelve handicapped

624
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:28.639
Now I was low at one point and now I'm not.

625
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:31.280
I feel like i'm not, but I'm still like, hey,

626
00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:33.760
I'm still at twelve. That's pretty good. But I'm not

627
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:39.719
qualified to teach right. Yeah. And at a very funny situation,

628
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:45.039
my buddy Kevin and I were playing and around at

629
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.679
one of our favorite courses, Foxtail North recently, and there

630
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:50.920
were the and we teed off. There were two guys

631
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.480
were teeing off behind us. We were twosome. We said,

632
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:55.559
you want to join us. They're like, no, no, that's okay.

633
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.719
You guys, we're we're not very good, so you guys

634
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.440
just go ahead and play in front of us. It's

635
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:04.000
like fine, okay. So we didn't play with him, but

636
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:06.239
I talked to him at tea boxes a couple of times.

637
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:08.400
Then they pulled up to one of the tea box

638
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.320
and number ten or eleven and one of the kids,

639
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.320
two young men, and he said, do you mind if

640
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.880
I ask you a question? And I was like sure,

641
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:19.119
go ahead, and he goes, how do you get the

642
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.480
ball off the tee? How do you hit the ball

643
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.119
straight off the team? I'm like, you're asking, We've never

644
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:28.639
talked and you want to ask me that question. It's

645
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:36.000
like a right, don't know. And Kevin started giving him

646
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.480
lessons and showing him his hands and doing things, and

647
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:41.719
I'm like, just slow down and don't try to hit

648
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:43.639
it hard. That's all I'm gonna tell you. I don't

649
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:47.199
want to say just slow it down. If you try

650
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:48.760
to hit it hard, you're gonna go over.

651
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.159
You get it.

652
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:51.239
You create tension in your body. And this is all

653
00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:53.960
stuff I've learned in the show. You got to loosen

654
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:56.760
the tension and stuff. So yeah, the fact that you're

655
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.920
not qualified to teach, but love the game and loved

656
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:06.519
to improve and want to hear great stories. And well

657
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:08.920
you said we like to talk. Do I like to talk?

658
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:09.960
I like to listen?

659
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.880
Yeah, I prefer to listen. Right.

660
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.800
But one of the things that happened while in this

661
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:18.960
six month period that I've been trying to figure out

662
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.400
what I was going to do next, whenever stories came

663
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:26.320
across my desk that usually I'm like, oh that's interesting.

664
00:38:26.320 --> 00:38:28.480
I want to get that person on the show, right,

665
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.480
I started seeing those stories going yeah, I'm not interested.

666
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:36.880
I'm like, oh, that's gonna tell me something. I just

667
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:41.159
wasn't interested in pursuing it. I'm like, yeah, I think

668
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:44.119
I'm done. I think I think it's time. I'm done,

669
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:48.159
But I am going to come back. Oh yeah, right,

670
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:52.800
are you gonna Besides being on Fridays, right. I'd love

671
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.360
to occasionally say hello, you.

672
00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:00.119
Are welcome any any time and as often as you

673
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.400
would like to like to be involved, and I would

674
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:03.079
hope that you would.

675
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:05.840
Well, of course we're going to do next week. We're

676
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.760
going to have Waldron one.

677
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:14.840
Yeah.

678
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:19.440
One of the things on your CV, your resume just

679
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.599
call them, uh, is you're a producer.

680
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:22.719
Yes.

681
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:26.280
Can you tell me more about that? That fascinates me? Yeah, well,

682
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:28.800
I as producer, I mean so many different things that

683
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.960
depending on which media, your medium you're discussing. You know,

684
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.280
I was a radio producer, which was what I made commercials,

685
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:39.480
or I produced the morning show or you know, but

686
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.599
but that's not what you're doing.

687
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:47.840
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I I had I really

688
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:54.199
lucked into it. You know, it's funny. I mean, I

689
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.599
I remember when I started my career, my whole goal

690
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:57.920
was I was like, I just want to be able

691
00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:01.480
to make a living as a journalists and support my family.

692
00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:07.800
And that happened way more quickly than I than I

693
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:09.880
thought it was going to. So I was kind of like, okay,

694
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:15.360
and then you know, everything I've done has kind of

695
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:17.800
I just you know, I get to this point where

696
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:20.760
you know, I look back five years and say, wow,

697
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.280
I never thought I'd be doing this. And in like

698
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:35.719
twenty fifteen, I was. I was working on a TV project,

699
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:38.199
Like I was. I was writing a TV script that

700
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:44.000
I sold but the to to a famous actors production company.

701
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:47.039
But and then it never went really far past that.

702
00:40:47.199 --> 00:40:51.599
But we worked on developing it and stuff. And when

703
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:59.159
I was working on that, I got a call from

704
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:03.239
the guys who had who had optioned my first book,

705
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.199
A feudal and stupid gesture, and and they were like,

706
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.159
you know, and they had been trying to get it

707
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:12.320
made for about five years, and it was always you know,

708
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.280
the story of oh, you know, so and So's in

709
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:16.840
so and So's in so and So's in but we

710
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:19.119
got half the money, but we don't have the other half.

711
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:21.719
And it's a very trick you know, it's a tricky

712
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:23.440
the way thing that I learned a lot about how

713
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.920
the way things work with all that in Hollywood. Anyway,

714
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:28.880
long story short, they went into a meeting at Netflix.

715
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.480
And this was right before Netflix got into This is

716
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:34.400
at the absolute beginning of them getting into original production.

717
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.599
You know, they were still the company they were they

718
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:41.599
had Netflix, but they were still you know, just kind

719
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.880
of coming out of that sending back your DVD's era,

720
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:49.599
and and they went into a meeting and they came

721
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:51.519
out forty five minutes later and they're like, done, deal,

722
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.280
We're making the movie. And so I'm like, oh my god,

723
00:41:53.320 --> 00:41:55.679
this is like talk about something I never thought would happen.

724
00:41:56.199 --> 00:42:02.119
Yea and am around the same time, you know, the

725
00:42:02.199 --> 00:42:04.519
one thing that happens. You know, people don't just email

726
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.880
you about your holes in one they or their holes

727
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.400
in one. They all kinds of people email you and

728
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.559
you write a book and they say, hey, I'm a director,

729
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.440
i'm a producer. I'd like to, you know, make a

730
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.199
movie out of your book. And I just kind of,

731
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:21.840
you know, it was like you know, I at first

732
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.360
it was really exciting, and then you start googling them

733
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:27.599
very flattering and then but then you kind of get

734
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:29.480
where you google the person you go like, well, I

735
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:33.480
don't see that they've ever made anything. So I got

736
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:37.000
an email shortly after the deal got made for my

737
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.639
first book to be made into a movie, and it

738
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:41.559
was from a guy and he just said, you know, hey,

739
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:44.800
I've wanted to make a documentary about this Orson Wells

740
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.039
movie forever. And I just read your book and blah

741
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:49.519
blah blah, you know, do you want to talk? And

742
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:51.480
I wasn't, you know, And I was like, yeah, sure,

743
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.480
of course. And then I googled him and I was like,

744
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:59.320
oh my god, this guy is like really legitimate. He

745
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:04.239
had won the ass for Best Documentary like two years before.

746
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.800
And his name is Morgan Neville and he's great. And

747
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.679
he let you know, he had me work as a

748
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:16.239
producer and the Source and Wells documentary and then and

749
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:18.360
and really, I'm you know, I'm not producing in any

750
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.920
kind of technical way. It was really you know, and

751
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:24.519
I wasn't writing it per se, but I was doing

752
00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:28.480
a lot of the interviews. I was doing a lot

753
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.159
of you know, I was he was certainly the creative

754
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:33.719
person behind it, but I did a lot of the

755
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:36.199
interviews and also was allowed to have a lot of

756
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.400
input into some of the creative stuff. And I love that.

757
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:43.679
And when you're a writer, you spend all your time

758
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:49.280
unless you're interviewing somebody alone. And I love the collaborative

759
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.840
nature of working on a film. And I love movies.

760
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:53.880
I mean, that's you know, another thing, you know, I mean,

761
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:58.760
I love movies like I love golf. And and then

762
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:03.760
I've worked as a consulting producer on his One of

763
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.000
his more recent ones that just came out in December.

764
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:09.880
It was called Breakdown nineteen seventy five that was on Netflix.

765
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:14.000
That was about the basically the movies of nineteen seventy

766
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.119
five and how they reflect the culture.

767
00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:20.960
Oh really, Oh yeah. I was like. My wife and

768
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.199
I started watching. She goes, oh, this isn't about nineteen

769
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:26.039
seventy five, and I'm like, no, it's about the movies

770
00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:31.079
of nineteen seventy five that were commenting on American culture, right.

771
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:32.559
It was like and I loved it. I thought it

772
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:33.079
was fascinating.

773
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.760
My wife, Oh, it was a blast. I mean, I

774
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:36.960
had so much fun working on it. And I love

775
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.519
to learn about stuff, you know, and I got to

776
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:42.239
learn about all, you know, all kinds of you know,

777
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.360
felt like I didn't know much about the Church Commission,

778
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:46.559
and all of a sudden, I'm trying to find movies

779
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:50.000
that reflect what's going on in the Church Commission. And

780
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:51.719
it was just you know, and I just I love

781
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.960
I love doing that stuff. And I have other you know,

782
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:57.000
TV and film projects that I'm working on right now,

783
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.519
both as a producer and a writer. But yeah, so

784
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:02.320
I mean and and I you know, and I have

785
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:06.519
other you know, film ish projects in development that I'm producing.

786
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:09.119
But I'm really, like, I would say, a creative producer

787
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:12.519
more than a producer producer. Like if you put me

788
00:45:12.559 --> 00:45:14.639
in charge of the production, like the woman who is

789
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:18.480
my co producer on the orson Wells One, I mean,

790
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.079
I could not do what she does. She made sure

791
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:27.119
everything got done and I just did my thing. So

792
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:28.519
that's kind of what I'm gonna.

793
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.760
Okay, okay, good, Well, I'm glad we got to we

794
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.239
get to learn more about that. Yeah, so I'm curious here.

795
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:37.679
Do you have any questions for me?

796
00:45:38.800 --> 00:45:44.079
I certainly do. Oh so let's first of all, tell

797
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:46.239
you know, tell me a little bit about what's been

798
00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:51.519
going on with you, you know, since you've decided to

799
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.079
step away from golf murder, and you know what and

800
00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:56.960
what you plan to do other than and I know

801
00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:58.559
golf is a big piece of it. So I want

802
00:45:58.599 --> 00:45:59.239
to hear about that.

803
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:03.280
Well, it's in interesting because there was no plan. There's

804
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:06.159
never been a plan. I'm not good at that. We

805
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:10.440
have that, yeah, I'm never never good at the plan part.

806
00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:15.719
I just felt like, you know, I turned seventy in August,

807
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:19.960
and I felt like I'm ready to retire. And what's

808
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:24.000
so fascinating is everyone's asking me, what are you going

809
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:26.280
to do? What are you going to do? What are

810
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:30.079
you going to do? And that is what I've given

811
00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:37.559
all a tremendous amount of thought because I've been doing

812
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:43.239
my whole life. I've been incredibly blessed that I was

813
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:48.360
able to go into business for myself in nineteen eighty six,

814
00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:52.480
and I've had to reinvent myself many times doing that,

815
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:56.480
which was great advice from one of my mentors. It's like,

816
00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:58.320
you need to listen. When you're self employed, you got

817
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:02.639
to reinvent yourself every Monday. And I've had some luck,

818
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:06.760
I've had some good fortune on some projects, and so

819
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:13.360
my feeling is right now, I don't want to do anything.

820
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.400
I just want to be yeah, which is hard, right,

821
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:18.239
which is.

822
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:26.000
Really hard to do. But I just want to just,

823
00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:30.360
you know, appreciate where I am in my life and

824
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.719
value this incredible relationship that I've had with my wife,

825
00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.920
going on forty six years this year will be married,

826
00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:41.840
and we have three amazing grandchildren and our sons are

827
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:47.239
doing well, and I just want to focus on that

828
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:51.519
part of my life going forward in the you know,

829
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:54.559
because like when I turned seventy, I remember saying, We're

830
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:56.599
at dinner with some friends, and I said, you know,

831
00:47:57.079 --> 00:47:59.559
the big birthdays are when there's a zero on it, right,

832
00:47:59.639 --> 00:48:02.559
those are always the big birthdays. And so I guess

833
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:04.159
this is one of the big birthdays. But the thing

834
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:11.039
is why may only have hopefully one maybe two left

835
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.559
in those. So it's like, do I need to do? No,

836
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:19.599
I don't want to do. And so I've decided that

837
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:23.480
in thinking a lot about it, one of my favorite

838
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:28.079
times of my life was growing up and having recess.

839
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:33.159
That's what I want to do. I want to have recess.

840
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.400
So I've been acting like a teenager. I sleep late,

841
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.880
and then when I get up, I'll spend an hour

842
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.599
reading articles and laying in bed, you know, with my iPad.

843
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.159
Then I get up and I'll do yoga and stretching.

844
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.039
And then it's a choice of do I practice golf,

845
00:48:54.280 --> 00:49:00.840
do I play golf, do I go swimming? And then

846
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:02.599
there's always got to go for a walk because I

847
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.840
got a dog, so I got to walk. We like

848
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.760
to hike, and Joanne loves to hike, and I always

849
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.480
say I love to hike too, but every so often

850
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:12.519
I want to hit something, so I want to walk.

851
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:14.639
I want to walk more. I want to play, you know,

852
00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:17.920
I definitely want to play more. And I'm actually and

853
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:22.519
listeners who've been with me for a while will know

854
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:25.159
that I've always talked about I've got a golf course

855
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:27.760
right outside my window here, but I'm not a member.

856
00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:30.920
I've put in my application to become a member of

857
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:35.039
the golf course because I was looking at different places

858
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.280
of where I could go and become a member, and

859
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:40.239
I'm like, why am I looking other places. There's a

860
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:43.159
golf course in my backyard right right, and they have

861
00:49:43.239 --> 00:49:47.159
a great practice facility, and they have tennis and pick

862
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:51.719
a ball and a full gym and a great restaurant

863
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:57.159
and swimming pools. But a swimming pool is like, they

864
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:00.800
don't designate laps for swimming, and it's only open from

865
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:03.079
May to October. It's come on, this is Marin County.

866
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.800
What are you doing. I swelled swim twelve months a year,

867
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.280
so anyway, the swimming part may not work out for me.

868
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:12.679
But the great restaurant and the practice and one time

869
00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:15.199
I did an interview with somebody, We're talking about the

870
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:21.480
value of golf country club membership. And I say, yeah,

871
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:23.679
I guess the coolest thing is you can play as

872
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:26.920
much as you want. He's like, ah, that's the difference.

873
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.880
I get to play as little as I want. I'm like,

874
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.639
what do you mean? He goes, if I want to

875
00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:34.000
play three holes today, I'll play three holes. I want

876
00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:35.920
to play five, I want to play nine. I can

877
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:39.280
do whatever I want. I can play as little as

878
00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:42.679
I want, not as much as I want. And to

879
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.239
me that was like, oh, so I can go. I

880
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.559
have two holes right in my backyard. I could play

881
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:50.440
these two over and over, or I've even set up like, oh,

882
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:52.719
there's a five hole loop that I could just do,

883
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:56.119
start on the next hole and end here and do

884
00:50:56.239 --> 00:51:01.760
that and go practice. So that's what hopefully in my

885
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:03.960
feudre And then we love to travel, so I want

886
00:51:03.960 --> 00:51:10.000
to continue traveling doing a lot more so it's you know,

887
00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:11.920
and listen to podcasts.

888
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:15.119
What's where? Where do you want to travel? Like is

889
00:51:15.159 --> 00:51:16.960
there any place you're dying to go to that you

890
00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:18.679
haven't been or that you want to go back to.

891
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:25.480
Or yeah, Joanne's in charge of booking those trips. But

892
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:28.639
I have my three years ago I said for my

893
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.119
seventieth birthday, I want to spend a month in Australia.

894
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:35.280
Well we're not even booking a trip to Australia yet,

895
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:36.960
and it's like, well, can we just go to New

896
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.360
Zealand then yeah, well we'll get there at some point,

897
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:41.719
but there's other places we got to go first. So

898
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:48.039
we love international travel. We love exploring. Uh. I would

899
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:50.000
love to just be able to get in the car,

900
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:52.760
go away for two days and go play golf somewhere,

901
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:58.280
you know, just do road trips for golf and I

902
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:02.480
we we really I want to go back to South America.

903
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:06.840
I love South America. I feel like Europe is like obvious,

904
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.599
you will go to Yeah, yeah we did Europe, we

905
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.000
did last year. But I love I live the Far

906
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:15.320
East and I love South America. I want to go

907
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:17.920
back to Australia, which I went once, but I want

908
00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:20.360
to go to New Zealand as well. I love to

909
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:23.239
travel more with my golf clubs. We don't usually do that,

910
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.960
but this country club here is a Troon Privey course,

911
00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:29.840
so I'll be able to go and take advantage of

912
00:52:30.119 --> 00:52:32.000
the Troon courses, which would be awesome.

913
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:32.840
Yeah.

914
00:52:32.880 --> 00:52:35.199
The problem with this golf course, we put our deposit

915
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:37.559
in for membership, and it's like, oh, there's a year

916
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:41.559
long waiting list. Wait a minute, I'm ready now. Oh well,

917
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:43.360
you got to wait for people to quit or die,

918
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:45.880
and that's not going to happen in the spring, that's

919
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.840
going to happen. So and even though Ken Doherty, who

920
00:52:50.920 --> 00:52:52.760
is the director of golf here, it's been on the

921
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:56.400
program multiple times, you know, and I did video work

922
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:00.119
for this golf course. I produced some videos for them.

923
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:03.119
Sorry it doesn't count. Nope, you're starting from scratch. So

924
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:05.199
I don't know when i'll we get to be a

925
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:07.719
member there, but that's one of the things that I

926
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:08.440
want to do.

927
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:14.559
Yeah, for sure. No, that's no. It's funny, like you know,

928
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:19.719
I always think about what it would be to stop doing,

929
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:25.199
you know, and to just try to like enjoy what's here.

930
00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:28.960
We've always said about ourselves, we're not human beings, we're

931
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:33.280
human doings, right, and we're constantly on the move and

932
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.559
you know, very fast paced.

933
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.840
Yeah, it's really I mean, I've always I remember my father.

934
00:53:41.960 --> 00:53:44.320
I always thought he ran a family business and I

935
00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:47.360
always thought, man, they're going to drag him out of

936
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:50.639
there on a stretcher. By his feet when he's ninety

937
00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:53.360
eight years old and he's going to be telling people

938
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.119
what they should be doing on the way out the door.

939
00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:58.039
And he sold the business when he was my age

940
00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:03.760
actually choose it was the bakery of my age. Yes,

941
00:54:04.000 --> 00:54:06.840
I am fifty nine years old, okay, and I was

942
00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:11.440
actually many years for golf smarter. Yes, as a brief digression,

943
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:13.480
I was just in Mexico and spring break with my

944
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:17.840
kid and I went to play golf and I took

945
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:20.000
an uber and I was having a little bit of

946
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.639
a language barrier with this kid who was driving the uber,

947
00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:24.559
and he was twenty five. But I said how old

948
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.119
are you? And he said I'm twenty five And he

949
00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:27.480
said how old are you? And I said I'm fifty

950
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:31.039
nine and he said, you look great for seventy nine,

951
00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:35.559
and I it's fifty nine.

952
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:37.960
You know. I was like, oh, well, you look like crap.

953
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:38.840
I know.

954
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:45.480
Well, that's why I was. It was like seventy nine.

955
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:49.039
I guess I look good for seventy nine. But no,

956
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:52.199
it's yes, I'm fifty nine years old, and I'm actually

957
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:56.800
you know, it's funny, you know, as I'm about turned

958
00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:01.039
sixty in October, and I really have No, it's I'm

959
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:04.239
excited to turn sixty, which I never would have thought

960
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:06.159
I would be. But I'm just kind of like, you know,

961
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.719
it's a nice it's a nice time in my life.

962
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:11.679
And I'm about to have my youngest goway to college

963
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.599
and have some small version. I still have to pay

964
00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:18.519
for college, so I can't I can't start traveling like that.

965
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:23.960
But I you know, I'm I'm kind of excited for

966
00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.199
what that new world is going to be for me.

967
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:28.599
So I think we're both going through different versions of

968
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:29.840
similar stuff.

969
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:33.199
Yeah. Yeah. Oh and one one more thing that I

970
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:39.079
do do my daily routine. I also have now started

971
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:40.840
not only do I do my stretching and yoga in

972
00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:42.840
the morning, I do it before I go to bed.

973
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:44.719
That's smart.

974
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:49.039
Oh my god, is that helped my sleep? Because that's

975
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:49.840
been tough.

976
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:53.039
You know who is a big advocate of that. No,

977
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:59.239
Ricky Henderson. Really he stretched before he went to bed

978
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:03.639
because he said he will couple lose WHOA.

979
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:07.119
I didn't know.

980
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:10.719
Yeah, isn't that wild? But I've I've actually and I've

981
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:17.239
done I've been just Ricky being Ricky, Ricky.

982
00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:20.239
Being Ricky man. Oh god, so many stories, you know,

983
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:23.320
It's so interesting because I don't know why I just

984
00:56:23.360 --> 00:56:27.000
got jones to look at this, but episode five hundred

985
00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:32.719
was on my sixtieth birthday. Oh really yeah, it was

986
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:34.719
published on my sixtieth birthday.

987
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:38.000
And who wasn't uh.

988
00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:41.239
Richard Cessna and the goal and the it was golf's

989
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:46.119
ultimate goal, shooting your age or lower, which interesting I'm

990
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:48.199
just looking at that now. But which is interesting about

991
00:56:48.199 --> 00:56:52.599
that is that one of the goals I've set for myself.

992
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:55.800
I think there are three golf goals in life, and

993
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:58.519
one is a hole in one, two is going to

994
00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.960
the Masters, and three shooting your age.

995
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:01.800
Right.

996
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.480
So I've done the first two, only one hole in one,

997
00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:08.760
only one appearance to the Masters last year, and maybe

998
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:12.920
never again, but hopefully Chet if you're listening, I'll go anytime.

999
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:18.119
And then the third one is I want to This

1000
00:57:18.159 --> 00:57:21.239
is why I'm taking lessons from Jim Waldron is I

1001
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.079
want to be able to shoot my age before I

1002
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:28.639
turn seventy six. I've shot, I've shot pre below seventy

1003
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:32.639
five a couple of times, so I know I can

1004
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:33.079
do this.

1005
00:57:33.800 --> 00:57:37.639
I want to shoot that's that would be a great achievement.

1006
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.360
I mean that, I mean I mean, I I because

1007
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:45.199
it's just you know, it's it's funny like it. First

1008
00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:48.480
of all, I'm sure you will be able to do it.

1009
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:50.280
You know, I'll come back and report it.

1010
00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:55.360
Damn. Yeah. But it's so you know, it's for me.

1011
00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:58.079
The main challenge with that is always when you're playing

1012
00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.760
so well, not thinking about how well you're playing, you know,

1013
00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:04.000
and not going off the rails because you're like, oh

1014
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:05.239
my god, I just part of the first.

1015
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:09.320
To score a card. Just be surprised at the end.

1016
00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:09.920
Don't look at that.

1017
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:13.280
Yes, yeah, exactly. Well that's a good goal. I like it.

1018
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:16.360
I It's gonna be a little while. I don't think

1019
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:18.519
I'm gonna be shooting any fifty nine anytime since.

1020
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:30.960
So, okay, but your show go.

1021
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.840
Now I'm taking over. This is not yet, yeah, I know.

1022
00:58:36.400 --> 00:58:38.840
So So for you know, if you've done a thousand

1023
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:42.000
plus of these interviews, and I know Tony Manzoni was

1024
00:58:42.199 --> 00:58:44.840
you know, is incredibly popular, but who's and I know

1025
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:49.519
Jim Nance was a big, you know, huge thing for you.

1026
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.239
You know what, I guess who's the most fun interview

1027
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:58.039
you've ever had? And what was the most unexpected interview

1028
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.480
you've had with somebody? What you know, where you just

1029
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:04.760
were like, it went completely differently than you ever thought

1030
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:05.119
it would.

1031
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:09.519
Oh God, there's a long list of like when people

1032
00:59:09.639 --> 00:59:13.000
like and people has always always asked me, Oh, you're

1033
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:16.440
a new podcast, who is your favorite interview? Well, now

1034
00:59:16.480 --> 00:59:19.760
I can go jim Nantz. Bump done. Oh that's a

1035
00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:24.920
get Oh good job jim Nantz. But I've always loved

1036
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:28.480
the crazy stories. And there's a couple that always jumped

1037
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.840
out to me. There was one the young man who

1038
00:59:33.239 --> 00:59:35.719
snuck into North Korea to play in the North Korean Open.

1039
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.480
Oh is the kid?

1040
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:46.639
So wow, yeah, I'll find it. Let's see from Korea

1041
00:59:49.360 --> 01:00:00.079
and oh wait, that's not what I meant to do. Fine, okay,

1042
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:07.159
so this young man this was no, not him, I'm

1043
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:15.079
gonna find it and nope and nope. Come on, did

1044
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:17.400
I really mention Korea that many times in this show?

1045
01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:25.559
Justin Crybec? Okay, so this was in twenty fourteen. Justin Crybec,

1046
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:27.920
who was in his mid twenties, a time he had

1047
01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:31.880
dual citizenships, so he had a European and an American passport,

1048
01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:34.519
and he loved golf, but he knew he was not

1049
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:36.559
good enough to play in a national open. But really

1050
01:00:36.599 --> 01:00:40.599
wanted to play in the National Open, and so he

1051
01:00:41.079 --> 01:00:45.800
was able to use his other passport. He lived in

1052
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:49.599
San Francisco in the Financial District, and he snuck into

1053
01:00:49.599 --> 01:00:52.320
North Korea and tells this whole story about how he

1054
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:56.000
played the North Korean Open. Wow, and he had crazy

1055
01:00:56.079 --> 01:01:00.760
stories about like they told him don't look, don't you

1056
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:03.440
can take pictures except for like holes four, five and

1057
01:01:03.519 --> 01:01:06.559
six or something, And he's like, why they said, just

1058
01:01:06.679 --> 01:01:09.800
don't take pictures on those holes. And he remembers walking

1059
01:01:09.840 --> 01:01:11.639
down the fairway and there was somebody in the bushes

1060
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:13.039
with binoculars watching them.

1061
01:01:13.320 --> 01:01:14.079
Oh my god.

1062
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:19.119
And then and the other great story was how after

1063
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:20.800
one of the rounds, he went to his room and

1064
01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:24.800
went to get something out of his safe and he

1065
01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:28.119
couldn't open it. The combination to change and he had

1066
01:01:28.119 --> 01:01:31.639
stuff in his safe. So he went to his handler

1067
01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:34.599
and it's a great episode. It was a great episode.

1068
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:39.519
This was when it was the nineteen twenty sixteen. In

1069
01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:44.679
September twenty sixteen, episode five poin fifty eight. He went

1070
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:46.960
to his handler and said, Hey, I can't get into

1071
01:01:47.000 --> 01:01:50.199
my safe to get stuff out, and she said, what

1072
01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:54.320
are you hiding. He's like what goes, Why do you

1073
01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:55.800
have to put things in a safe? What are you

1074
01:01:55.880 --> 01:01:58.800
hiding right? And he's like, oh no, no, no, no.

1075
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.440
In the United States, well like people steal things out

1076
01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:04.719
of hotel room, so we put things in the safe

1077
01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:06.599
just to make sure he doesn't get stolen. She goes,

1078
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:08.679
good answer, I'll get someone to open it for you.

1079
01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:10.599
Oh wow.

1080
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:14.800
So going into the final round, he was like two

1081
01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:18.239
shots back of the lead. Get up, and he got

1082
01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:21.519
to the eighteenth hole and kind of panicked because he

1083
01:02:21.559 --> 01:02:25.679
didn't want to win, and so he got He had

1084
01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:28.039
a snowman on a par four in the eighteenth hole,

1085
01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:31.880
and so he was able to go home. And then

1086
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:35.320
he went home and he went back to San Francisco

1087
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.119
and went back to work, and so like here we

1088
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.320
talked about it. He did this in twenty fourteen. I'm

1089
01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:43.599
talking to him in twenty sixteen and I said, so,

1090
01:02:44.519 --> 01:02:47.800
how come I couldn't find any articles about this anywhere?

1091
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:50.679
And he goes, huh. I said, did you have have

1092
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:52.400
you ever talked to the press about this? And he

1093
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:55.199
went no, No. I got home, went back to work.

1094
01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:57.559
I'm like, wait a minute, I'm breaking this story. This

1095
01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:00.000
is the first time the story's being told. He goes, right,

1096
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:03.559
I'm like, whoa, okay, an exclusive for goals?

1097
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:07.840
Yeah right, no, god, that's that's one of my favorites.

1098
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:11.840
That's wild. That's an amazing I like. And then just

1099
01:03:11.880 --> 01:03:15.239
to go back to your normal life. Yeah, exactly, it's

1100
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:16.320
always fascinating to me.

1101
01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:24.400
Then there was the insurance salesman. Uh oh boy, yeah, no,

1102
01:03:24.480 --> 01:03:28.280
it's not going to be never mind about that. I

1103
01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:30.760
can't find it. An insurance salesman who was having a

1104
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:34.199
great round playing with some buddies and he's in his

1105
01:03:34.239 --> 01:03:37.920
mid sixties, early sixties, and one of the guys he

1106
01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:40.079
was playing with he didn't know the fourth he was

1107
01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:43.079
new to him, said to him, doing a great day.

1108
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:45.440
He goes, yeah, I'm really playing well today. He goes,

1109
01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:48.039
did you play in college? He goes, no, No, I

1110
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:51.920
played baseball. He said, do you still have eligibility? And

1111
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:55.079
he said, actually, I think I do because when I

1112
01:03:55.079 --> 01:03:57.760
played baseball in college, I got injured and never went back,

1113
01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.519
so I guess I'd still be eligible. He goes, you

1114
01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:03.559
want to be on our college golf team? What he says,

1115
01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:07.440
I'm the coach of the community college here and we

1116
01:04:07.559 --> 01:04:09.320
have a space open and would love to have you

1117
01:04:09.400 --> 01:04:12.719
join the team. And he's like, okay, But what he

1118
01:04:12.760 --> 01:04:15.480
didn't realize is he had to go to class right

1119
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:20.199
to take classes. And then one time it's a community college, right,

1120
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:24.000
So one time he went to they were on a

1121
01:04:24.079 --> 01:04:26.760
road trip and he knocked on the door of one

1122
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.079
of his teammates and said, Hey, I'm gonna go grab

1123
01:04:29.119 --> 01:04:31.159
a beer. You want to come with me and goes,

1124
01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:35.440
I'm not old enough to drink, and I got homework

1125
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:37.960
to do. I kind of study. He's like, oh god,

1126
01:04:38.039 --> 01:04:41.239
what am I doing here? So those are two stories

1127
01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:44.920
that stand out as favorites. But then the multiple conversations

1128
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:50.239
with doctor Bob Jones about his grandfather have always been

1129
01:04:50.639 --> 01:04:53.679
really special for me, and that's why we always show

1130
01:04:54.079 --> 01:04:58.039
aired them on the on the week of the Masters.

1131
01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:01.360
We're not doing it this year. He's I spoke to

1132
01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:05.400
him recently. He had some heart issues, but he's better

1133
01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:08.960
now and he's very interested in talking to you. Josh.

1134
01:05:09.119 --> 01:05:12.360
Oh great. Well, that's as we discussed the other day.

1135
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:14.679
I mean, I'm I'm I've been dying to talk to

1136
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:16.840
somebody who can talk to me about Bobby Jones because

1137
01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.639
that is I watch I have you ever seen the

1138
01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:23.440
videos of him, the movies he made for Disney. Yes,

1139
01:05:23.719 --> 01:05:26.599
those are incredible, Like and you see.

1140
01:05:26.360 --> 01:05:28.880
How what a special man he was.

1141
01:05:28.840 --> 01:05:33.880
Oh yeah, and you just the beauty of how he moved,

1142
01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:37.519
you know, swinging at golf club, you know, and you're

1143
01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:40.239
just like wow, like look at you know, and you

1144
01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:43.880
know the last great amateur, right, you know, the last right?

1145
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:49.960
So all right, So anything else.

1146
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:53.199
No, sir, I have other questions, but I think our

1147
01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:54.920
time is probably all right.

1148
01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:57.559
Then listen, then this is what we're gonna do. We'll

1149
01:05:57.599 --> 01:06:02.320
be back next week. This Friday will be let's see

1150
01:06:02.360 --> 01:06:06.000
this Friday, is that gonna be another We all done

1151
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:08.199
with Tony Manzoni. I think we're all done with the

1152
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:12.960
Tony Manzoni episodes for twenty twenty six, which are always phenomenal.

1153
01:06:13.639 --> 01:06:25.280
And yeah, yes, next week, oh, next week's episode on

1154
01:06:25.360 --> 01:06:30.119
Mulligan's or this week's episode Mulligan's is going to be

1155
01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:32.440
the time that I played in a pro am for

1156
01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:36.119
a web dot com event. Okay, lay, I played with

1157
01:06:36.159 --> 01:06:38.559
Adam Long and I brought a recorder with me and

1158
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:41.559
I interviewed Adam during the round. So we're gonna get

1159
01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:46.599
to hear Adam my conversation along who who. My favorite

1160
01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:49.679
thing about Adam Long was his at the time, his

1161
01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:58.239
Twitter handle, which was a long shot at along And

1162
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:00.480
so yeah, we're gonna play that. And then the following

1163
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:03.800
week I'll be back with doctor Greg Steinberg from episode

1164
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:07.199
four hundred and ninety nine, which was golf is one

1165
01:07:07.239 --> 01:07:12.280
hundred percent mental and one hundred percent physical, so very interesting.

1166
01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:15.199
But next week you and I will be back and

1167
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:18.639
we'll have Jim Waldron on and Jim and I will

1168
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:23.719
start the conversation by going over my latest lesson with Jim.

1169
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:24.800
You'll get to hear one.

1170
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:28.159
Of that I'm looking forward to. I remember my lessons

1171
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:30.119
with Jim. They were a trip.

1172
01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.039
He always starts with you got a great swing, you're

1173
01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:37.679
doing great, but here's your problem. He builds me up

1174
01:07:37.719 --> 01:07:40.039
really well, and then he goes, yeah, but you're just

1175
01:07:40.119 --> 01:07:43.000
not making any progress at all. So I'm working very hard.

1176
01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:45.800
So we're gonna get my golf lesson with Jim Waldron

1177
01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:49.239
and then the second half of that conversation you'll take

1178
01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:51.800
over and do your thing, and then from that point on,

1179
01:07:51.960 --> 01:07:55.840
it's Golf Smart with Josh Carp. Well.

1180
01:07:55.880 --> 01:07:58.280
I can't wait and thank you again. This has been

1181
01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:01.639
really fun and I'm really looking forward to doing this

1182
01:08:01.800 --> 01:08:05.760
and to you remaining around as founder. As we discussed

1183
01:08:05.800 --> 01:08:09.960
earlier that the ule Golf Smarter founder Fred Green, So

1184
01:08:11.119 --> 01:08:12.679
thank you for having me on and thank you for

1185
01:08:12.679 --> 01:08:14.960
giving me the opportunity to take over the show.

1186
01:08:15.480 --> 01:08:16.319
You very welcome