April 21, 2026

Let’s Get To Know Josh Karp Some More Before Fred Hands Over the Microphone

Let’s Get To Know Josh Karp Some More Before Fred Hands Over the Microphone
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Season 21

GS1030 April 21, 2026 Fred and Josh Karp continue to talk about the future of Golf Smarter as Josh takes over in the next episode. Also, in an effort for us all to learn more about Josh, we replay our original interview with him from April 20, 2010 after the release of his funny book, “Straight Down The Middle: Shiva Irons, Bagger Vance, and How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love My Golf Swing” The book covers his adventures and mis-adventures as he follows an enlightened path of instruction to better golf with various coaches, including many who've been featured on GOLF SMARTER.

Enter for a chance to win a signed copy of Josh Karp’s book, Straight Down the Middle. Simply subscribe for free to the "Corrected Mistakes" email list on Substack—use the link below or search for "Corrected Mistakes" on Substack. For an additional entry, follow Golf Smarter on Instagram.
https://substack.com/@correctedmistake

Although we promoted it last time, Jim Waldron couldn’t make it this week as he’s recovering from hip replacement surgery. He’ll be back in the near future to talk to both Josh and Fred.

So as not to shake things up too much, Golf Smarter will continue twice each week. Tuesday's will be new episodes with Josh. On Fridays we’ll continue to rerun Fred's archived Mulligans episodes.

I hope you’ll continue to listen. Thanks so much for your support and friendship over the years. As I move into retirement, my focus will be on playing and practicing a lot more golf! -Fred.

Please welcome our new host of Golf Smarter, Josh Karp! Fred has retired from his work life, including the podcast, and will be working on his game with more intention than ever. If you have a question for either Josh or Fred, or if you’d like to share a comment about what you’ve heard in this or any other episode, please write to Josh at karpj2323@mac.com or Fred at golfsmarterpodcast@gmail.com.

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Ah, I'm saying what you're seeing from fort Or, Texas,

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and I play at Merivsta Country Club. This is golf smarter,

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golf smarter. Remember one thousand and thirty.

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You know, I'd read Golf in the Kingdom, I'd read

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Bagger Vance, I'd read Son Golf, and I was kind

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of two minds. You know, half of me is like,

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I get it. I totally get this golf, meaning of life, Buddhism,

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quantum physics deal. And the other half of me was like,

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come on, you know, this is Pat Summerle and Jack

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Nicholas and plaid pants. There's not something like this is

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a big excuse for guys to say, like, oh, it's

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a spiritual experience. I'm going to go play aging holes.

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So I started taking these lessons. I thought I'm going

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to test this. So what I did really was, you know,

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half the book is pretty much me taking non traditional lessons,

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and the other half is me playing golf with various

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kind of spiritually inclined golfers or golfers who are spiritual people.

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Let's take an opportunity to know Josh Karp even more

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before I hand over the microphone to him.

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This is golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower your score and

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raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Welcome back to the golf that you know what. Welcome

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home to Golf Smarter.

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Josh, thank you for having me Fred home. No, no,

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that's okay. I'm moving into your house. Let's do it.

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Let's do it. That you are, you are definitely in

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the shack, in the county shack.

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Happy to be here.

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And I just want to thank listeners who've been writing

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in saying thank you and goodbye, and you know things,

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like one person said, probably could count on one hand,

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a number of podcasters are still around from two thousand

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and five, right, Probably true. You know, some people have

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said I was a pioneer in golf podcasting. It's like, okay,

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you can do that. I don't I don't mind that.

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Then this email I got from George this morning, Uh,

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sad to learn that Fred is moving on. Although I

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do highly recommend retirement, and.

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You're looking forward to it.

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So oh so much so after this Uh, And he said,

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I believe I've listened to every Golf Smarter podcast episode. Yeah,

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I'm not so sure. George, but that would be amazing

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and can confidently say this is what I loved that

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Nearly everything I've learned that is worth learning I heard

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on your podcast. So it's on your shoulders, my friend.

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Oh my god, that's a bird. That's a lot, that's

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a lot of golf knowledge. Yeah.

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It definitely gets in your thought process about what do

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they want to hear? What are they It's like, yeah,

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I'm ya, No, this was all about me, so I

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don't care. It's like, how do I become a better golfer? Literally?

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This is what how do I get better at golf

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without having to take golf lessons?

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Right? Right?

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It was the whole goal.

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Which is something I think we all can relate to

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whether we're hosting a golf podcast or not.

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Right, right exactly, And let's say that we had we

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had teased the fact that Jim Waldron was going to

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join us for today's conversation, right, But Jim just had

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hip replacement surgery and his recovery is not going as

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he expected. He was patching a lot more and so

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we're going to have to delay that. But since I

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stopped doing interviews back in December, I've been taking lessons

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from Jim, and once a month we get together. I

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send him videos of my swing from two views and

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then he rips me to shreds on him and tells

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me everything I'm doing wrong. And so what we were

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hoping to do is have my next lesson as this

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podcast episode. But when Jim is ready, I'll come back.

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We can do that.

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That I would love you.

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Be fun because Jim was also featured in your book

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Right Straight down the Middle.

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Absolutely, he was one of my absolute and he needs.

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To read this book actually to get to know Josh.

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Thank you. That No, that was that was That was

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a lot. That was a really fun experience, and I

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just I like the people I met were so great,

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and Jim was one of my absolute favorites just his

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both his personality and his kind of story of how

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he became when he became yeah right, yeah, from the

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from the North side of Chicago too, so he uh

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perfect for both of us. I believe he caddied at

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the country club my grandparents belonged to. I remember we

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shared some stories which which which weirdly enough, it's funny,

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my my. It's this kind of place on the north

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side of the city, and there were always like odd

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celebrities would show up, some guy and Martin and Lewis

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used to play there whenever they were in town. Yeah,

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and I remember seeing Dean Martin on Bengo night at

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my grandmother's country club. So anyway, but so I don't

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know if Jim bet Dean Martin on the course, but

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Jim worked there, and Jim is the best.

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He's got stories. Yeah, he's got years and years of stories.

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So yeah, we will get back with Jim when he's

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ready to do that again, and I'd be happy to

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come back.

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And as with you, we will do that for sure.

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But I'll tell you taking lessons with Jim has really

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been radical shift for me. I was my index was

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in the nines and tens for a long time, and

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now this morning I had noticed that I'm thirteen. So

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clearly I'm making changes and looking forward to turning those around,

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especially with my goal of trying to shoot my age

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before I turned seventy six. Right, so you know what

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will happen, We're not sure, but again thanks to the

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ambassadors and the listeners who email me and text me,

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it's just been an amazing thing to build this community

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and grow it and now to be able to hand

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it over to you. They're wonderful people, and that I

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may take you seriously whether we do or not.

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Well, that'll be a first for somebody to take me seriously.

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So I've been right, and you had you had a

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really nice Facebook post talking about the transition, and and

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a lot of your people have said great things to

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you and wishing you the best of luck, as we

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all do.

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Yeah, no, that was you know that, it was really

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I was excited to announce it and and I got,

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you know, a really nice response, and and you know,

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some people, some of my friends, just you know, golf

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people who I've connected with over the years, were nice

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enough to kind of spread the word. And uh, you know, hopefully,

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you know, hopefully we'll you know, they'll they'll they'll bring

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in some some other people to listen, and we'll just

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keep going. I'm looking forward to talking to this great

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audience you built.

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How do we get the book in their hands?

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I am more than willing to uh give out some

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free copies. I mean they can find it on Amber.

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How about I'll ten too.

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You're up to up to you, I mean, they're in

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your house, not mine.

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Yes, I yes, I will. I am happy to provide

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a ton ton copies to listeners so we can do

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a giveaway of some kind. Yeah, so let's do that.

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Okay, how should they reach out to you?

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You know it? Well, right now, I'm gonna they can

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contact me at carp j. This is terrible. I have

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to get a new email, carp J k A r

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p j A two three two three at mac dot

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com or if you're on Facebook, you could just find

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me at Josh KRP on Facebook or on Twitter, and

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and I will the first ten people I will send

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a free cop free autograph copy of the book too.

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That's awesome. Mine's autographed.

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Well that that's n if you could read the autograph

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that My autograph itself is not too impressive, but that's

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why you type it's right exactly.

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Can you imagine writing a book by hand?

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Oh you know, I've i've.

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With or writing it on a Did you write it

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on typewriter? NW?

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You hadss No? No, I mean no, no, I mean

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I wrote it on a laptop. I mean but yeah,

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I am yeah. Thank god my career coincided with the

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existence of laptop, because I have written chapters long hand

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sitting in airport uh, you know, airport's waiting for flights

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and things like that, and then I have to figure

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out what I actually wrote when I look at my handwriting,

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so right right, and anyone who gets a free book

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will will see that when they see my signature.

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So tell me what you have lined up now. I

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know that you had been preparing to do a podcast

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right before we started this transition. You were going to

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do it on your own and start from scratch. But

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let's let's get everybody involved already. Uh, let's talk about

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some of the people you're you're already recorded and you

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have lined up, and what you talk about with them.

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Yeah, so you know, you know, my first guest is

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gonna be Christo Garcia, who runs Classic Swing Golf School

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on the show. Yeah, and Christo's amazing and he's got,

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you know, just a great story and a great approach

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to golf. I but you know, I really tried, you know,

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with the guests I've recorded so far, most of them,

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and I'm going to be adding a bunch of other people.

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But you know, are a lot of instructors talking about

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different approaches to you know, how to hit the ball

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and how to get better. So I have I talked

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to Mike Malaska, who's terrific who talks. We had a

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great conversation really about you know, and not to get

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too technical, but he did a great description about talking

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to Jack Nicholas about the hands and how the hands

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are used in the swing, and and he's Mike is

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such a great instructor and just understands golf so well,

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and he really gives just this perfect description via Nicholas

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of the importance of the hands, you know, just in

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the swing.

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I can't wait to hear you because I tried to

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get him on multiple times and never was able to.

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So I'm so excited that you're getting him on.

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Yeah. No, And my Mike is great. I've got uh,

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Manty shine Bloom, who who was the world long driving

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champion at one time and is now an instructor, and

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Manti you know, And what I love about these guys,

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you know, about everybody, you know, everybody's you know, the

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human part of it is what's really interesting and kind

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of the journey to how they you know, got where

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they got. And Monty his dad was Richie shine Bloom,

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who played for in the nineteen seventy two All Star

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Game for the Kansas City Royals.

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Oh my gosh.

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And and he and Monty was a very good high

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school baseball player who blew out his elbow, took up golf,

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of course, became immediately, you know, one of those guys

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who was shooting sixty eight within you know, eighteen months.

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But then he and he won this long drive champion

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he played in college, and then his swing, his game

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kind of fell apart and he quit the game. I'm

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actually really surprised at the number of high level instructors

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I've interviewed who at you know, not a huge percentage

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of them, but enough quit at some point and just

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said I just can't I lost it. I can't do

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it anymore. And and Monty, which I love this, he

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went and he he he decided he went to a

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driving range and he would go there every day and

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he would find the worst swing on the range. And

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he has an ability to mimic swings and he would

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then go mimic he'd go to another booth, he'd do

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their swing, and then he would fix it himself. And

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he did this for like a year. He would just

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go every day, find the worst swing, go to the

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other end of the driving range, imitate it, then fix it.

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And that was his way and finding himself, finding his

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00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:57.559
own way back to his swing, you know, which I

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00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.799
just I've always you know, just like love loved that

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00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:06.080
story and that approach. Right. Another guy who I actually

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worked with for a couple of days. It's a guy

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named Jacob Bowden who.

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I've known Jacob for years.

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Oh, Jacob's he when.

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00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.600
He first started this quest, he reached out to me

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and I had him on. I must have had him

236
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:22.000
on a half dozen times.

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00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.440
Jacobs, He's great, He's amazing and and you know, and

238
00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.320
he's he's a disciple of Mike Austin. You know who

239
00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:32.559
was the guy who hit the longest drive in the

240
00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:36.240
history of competition? I think it like the seventy four

241
00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.440
US Senior Open. He uh, I think, And I'm going

242
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.639
he hit a five hundred and seventy two year drive

243
00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:50.000
with a persimmon driver and an old golf ball. I

244
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think the conditions were right because it was in Vegas

245
00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.159
and it was very dry, and he had a good

246
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win behind him. But still five seventy two isn't bad.

247
00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.320
And and I actually spent a day or two in

248
00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:09.720
Detroit with Jacob, taking some lessons, and it was really

249
00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:14.120
you know, because with the Austin swing, you know, the

250
00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.320
whole thing is, you know, you get your hands super high.

251
00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:20.200
It's a much bigger swing then I'm used to. And

252
00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:22.519
it's really about getting your hands way high in your

253
00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.000
swing and then kind of letting things fall from there.

254
00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:33.600
And I have always you know it certainly, you know,

255
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.200
we all struggle with controlling trying to control the swing.

256
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:38.720
And I really had to let go. And I was like,

257
00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:43.919
this is never ever going to work. And the next

258
00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:47.080
day and it worked a little bit on this indoor

259
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.039
driving range. The next day we went out and played

260
00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.840
and we I decided, you know, I was like, oh,

261
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:55.879
you know, I'll hit one ball with my regular driver,

262
00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.320
you know, regular drive, and hit one ball driving like

263
00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:04.320
Jacob has taught me. And I was hitting the ball

264
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:08.559
and it is not and this is no, not Jacob's fault,

265
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:13.879
this is mine. It is not stayed. But I hit

266
00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:15.960
I think on the first hole, I think I hit

267
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.039
a two hundred and eighty five year drive directly down

268
00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.639
the middle, you know, and I hit about two forty

269
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.440
two fifty usually and the ball flew.

270
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.840
Which I was laced to two ten. Ye, everyone thinks

271
00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:29.159
they hit it.

272
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.120
Oh no, no, let me let me tell you something. My

273
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:37.399
father taught me very very young that lying about anything

274
00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.039
related to golf is the worst kind of dishonesty on

275
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.120
the planet. So I've tried at least as much as like,

276
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.440
I'm not going to say I'm the only the only

277
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.440
honest golfer because I'm probably I probably lie about all

278
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:53.320
kinds of crap, but I will or you know, conflate things.

279
00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:56.840
But whatever, and anyway I I do. I mean I

280
00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:58.879
can and now I can hit the ball, you know,

281
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.039
longer than I did before. I can hit the mob

282
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:05.480
about two sixty. You know, not every time, but when

283
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:07.720
I worked with Jacob, I mean I was hitting the

284
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:12.759
ball two eighty and I was hitting it. The ball

285
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:16.559
flew in a totally different way. I was like, it's

286
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:18.799
going to go all over the place. And it was

287
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.720
the straightest I have ever hit drives in my entire life.

288
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:22.759
Wow.

289
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:27.159
So and plus Jacob is amazing. You know A side note,

290
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.039
when I was with Jacob, who is I think just

291
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:35.840
turned fifty and who looks like he's forty. You're kidding, Yeah,

292
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:37.960
he's fifty, he's fifty.

293
00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:41.600
And I would have said he's mid thirties at best.

294
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.960
Well, and talk about a physical specimen. We were talking

295
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:50.840
about that Brian Johnson, the redheaded guy who did the

296
00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:53.399
Netflix special. He's the one who's trying to live forever.

297
00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:56.960
He's the billionaire who's siphoning his son's blood and he's

298
00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.360
taking all these supplements and he has an app that's

299
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.799
a longevity app. And one of the tests is can

300
00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:11.720
you stand up from sitting down without using your hands?

301
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:15.720
And I said, and so he was telling me about it,

302
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:18.119
and I said, can you do that? And we're on

303
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.640
the street in Detroit, and Jacob says sure, and he

304
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:27.720
sits down without using his hands, like totally normal, just

305
00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:32.880
like loop down, and then stays there for ten seconds

306
00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.079
and stands right up without using his hands. And I

307
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:40.640
was like, well, I'm not living forever, but that dude, No, no, no, no,

308
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:42.119
off the ground friend.

309
00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.440
Oh oh, sit down on the ground.

310
00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.759
On the ground like cross like in a.

311
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:50.759
Squat or oh in a c who okay, never mind.

312
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:52.640
I just I just like got up from my chair

313
00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.680
and he's like, yeah, no, no, I thought, I.

314
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.559
I can't get up from my chair with no hands.

315
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:00.880
I'm seventy no, I'm at fifty nine. I will tell

316
00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:02.079
you I am not going.

317
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:03.799
To be okay. I'm gonna get on the floor. Hang

318
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.680
on a seconds, let's.

319
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:06.279
See if you can do this.

320
00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:08.519
Okay, I'm going to get a cross leg on the

321
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:15.000
floor here and with out my hands.

322
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.839
Josh, I still see at the top of your head. Friend, Josh,

323
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:25.279
can you I can't get up if I was okay?

324
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.799
So I well, I wrapped my I didn't go straight

325
00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:29.279
from cross leg, but I did get up.

326
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:29.920
Yeah.

327
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.119
And I'm working so hard at my core these days

328
00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:34.440
and working so hard.

329
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.720
Yeah, Jacob, Jacob is great. So I've got an episode

330
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.079
with Jacob, you know. And then just a whole bunch

331
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.160
of really great people. I talked to Jane Blaylock, who

332
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.519
played on the LPGA tour good and she was great

333
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:49.480
and kind of talked about, you know, growing up playing

334
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:53.480
with boys and learning her swing from you know, from

335
00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:57.599
from the boys. I've got a couple of biomechanics experts.

336
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.240
I love that on the Scientists.

337
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:03.319
I don't know if you've had them, Rob Neil or

338
00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:05.960
Sasha McKenzie, I.

339
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.319
Think I have.

340
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.480
Yeah, he's great, He's terrific. And then like Bradley Hughes,

341
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.799
Matt Forte and Sean Clement. I talked to all those

342
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.000
guys and it's just a really great group. And then

343
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:23.640
you know different people, you know, just a whole really

344
00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.559
and then just you know, some kind of golf personality

345
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:29.359
type people. I talked to Peter Kessler, Wow, yeah about

346
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.359
his friend his relationship with with Seve Palmer and Steed.

347
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:35.559
Oh excellent.

348
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.240
And he told me a great story about Sevie coming

349
00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:39.960
over to his house and throwing out all of his

350
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.079
sixty degree irons because he said nobody should ever he's

351
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:49.079
a sixty degree iron and uh, yeah, so you know,

352
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:51.440
so it's it's really love this. Yeah, it's been so

353
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:56.319
much fun. And you know, it's been I've learned a lot,

354
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.359
you know, about the swing, and they've and plus I

355
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.680
just they're great people and they're everybody has a really fun,

356
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:05.480
you know, compelling story. And that's what I love is

357
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.400
I just I like the people in golf and I

358
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:08.640
like listen.

359
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.039
To well they know how they don't. You really don't

360
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.759
need many referrals from me. You've got your own lists.

361
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.279
Although are there people that have been on our on

362
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.519
before they other than what you've mentioned that you'd like

363
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:20.599
to get on.

364
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.240
Oh yeah, I think, I think, I yeah, we will.

365
00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:25.279
Just I'm going to take a look at the list

366
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:26.279
and see, you know who.

367
00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:28.079
Who you've got to get doctor Bob Jones.

368
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.640
Oh that that is like right up there, because you know,

369
00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:36.240
I've really tried to. Yeah, I'm really interested. You know,

370
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.119
I look at you know, you look at golf today

371
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.839
and you look at you know, Rory and bryceon and

372
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.519
all these guys, and one thing I know is I'm

373
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.599
never going to swing like those dudes. Like they you know,

374
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:50.839
they're born with the club in their hands. They are

375
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.880
you know, stretching their bodies in places my body doesn't

376
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:58.279
even know can be stretched, and exercise that, you know,

377
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.680
strengthening muscles I don't know I have. And you know

378
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.000
that everything they're doing is just it's such a high level.

379
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.960
But you know, I really love you know, talking and

380
00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.440
learning about kind of a more classic swing approach and

381
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.519
learning about you know, the swings of guys like you know,

382
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:22.119
Snead and Nicholas and Hogan and weiss Cough and Johnny

383
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:25.119
Miller and all those guys who I watch growing up

384
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.680
kind of you know, who have swings. You know, when

385
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.640
swings were different from each other, you know, when everybody

386
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.759
wasn't just crushing the ball, you know, three you know,

387
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.039
three hundred off the tee and then hitting a wedgend. So,

388
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:39.680
you know, there's a lot of really you know, I

389
00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:44.119
love the historical stuff, and I talked to you know,

390
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:46.119
and there are people like theirs. I talked to Tom

391
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:53.160
Bertrand who who runs basically a Hogan school teaching people. Yeah,

392
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:57.759
and I love that they've dedicated their lives to one

393
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:03.920
school of thought, you know, and that's always really interesting,

394
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.079
interesting to learn from, you know, and why they pursued that.

395
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:13.160
I got an idea here, since we didn't have the

396
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.920
opportunity to interview Jim Waldron together like we had hoped

397
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.440
to do and still hope to do in the future,

398
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:24.559
let's do this. Well, let's take a break, and when

399
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.920
we come back, let's let's go back in history and

400
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.880
really let the audience know more about you, and we'll

401
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:37.279
bring back that first interview that we did together. Strangely enough,

402
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.799
we're publishing this on April twenty first, twenty twenty six.

403
00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.920
That came out on April twentieth, twenty ten.

404
00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:46.839
Oh Get out of Here six.

405
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:53.160
Sixteen years ago. That was episode two hundred and twenty seven,

406
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:57.599
and this is episode one thousand and thirty of fresh content,

407
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:04.319
So do that. Let's just replay and then next week

408
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:10.599
on the next episode and you will take off with

409
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.200
which christ Garcia. Yeah, Christopher's had on and he's great,

410
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.039
he's entertaining. And what I loved about Christjo Garcia, he

411
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.279
was one of us. He's somebody who just came from

412
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:23.799
being an amateur golfer but was obsessed and needed to

413
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:27.920
get better and he did and be absolutely right, and

414
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.400
he became really good on YouTube.

415
00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:31.160
Yeah, and he's the guy who did it right. I

416
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:35.160
mean he was really you know, he was shooting over

417
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.599
one hundred I think after exactly and became and now

418
00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.920
he's teaching, so yeah, that'd be. Yeah. He's a great guest.

419
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.240
So so it's perfect, so perfect. So let's let everyone

420
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:48.720
know we'll meet you again and we'll just play what

421
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.160
ended up being a Mulligan's episode a while ago. But

422
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:55.400
we're going to bring that one back. So let me

423
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:01.000
just say now goodbye. I want to thank all the

424
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.519
audience over the years who've come and gone. For the

425
00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.279
people who've criticized me, thank you very much. I took

426
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.200
it to heart and I listened and I paid attention,

427
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:19.039
and I tried to get better, and I'll be back occasionally.

428
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.640
We'll talk again. I'll give you updates on how my

429
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.680
game is going and what equipment I'm playing with, whatever

430
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.119
it is. We talk about where I travel to, and

431
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:30.039
I'm going to miss this. I'm going to miss y'all.

432
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:35.039
And I just am so so pleased to hand it

433
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:37.319
over to Josh and put it in your hands, because

434
00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:39.960
it's going to get even better.

435
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.599
Well, I want to say thank you for trusting me

436
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.839
with your show and your audience, and you are. I

437
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:49.920
hope you'll be back as often as you want, and

438
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:53.279
I hope you shoot under your age before you hit

439
00:24:53.319 --> 00:24:56.359
seventy six, as I know you've planned so.

440
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:05.279
Our guest today is Josh Carp, author of a new book,

441
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:09.480
very funny book called Straight down the Middle, subtitled Shives, Irons,

442
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:12.960
Bagger Vance and How I Learned to Stop worrying and

443
00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:16.640
Love my Golf swing. Welcome to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

444
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.319
Josh, Hey, how are you.

445
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:20.920
I'm doing well. Thank you so much for joining us.

446
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.480
Oh, thanks for having me on the show.

447
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:24.759
Well, I'm excited to have you on the show because

448
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:26.519
a couple of reasons. But first of all, I get

449
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.720
your book in the mail from what is a chronicle press. Yeah,

450
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.720
and I'm looking at going, well, this looks kind of

451
00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:36.119
interesting because it kind of fits into what we do.

452
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.119
And the next day Jamie Zimron, who's just been on

453
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.839
Golf Smarter and has been on multiple times before, she said,

454
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:45.440
do you know Josh Carp have you have you? Have

455
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:47.079
you read his book yet? And I'm like, wow, I

456
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:49.279
just got in the mail. Hang on his second.

457
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:52.000
Jed as if my seven year old will tell you

458
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:53.759
Jamie is my son? Say, he always goes, you have

459
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.920
a sunsey your golf sense, so so yeah, Jams all

460
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:00.680
of our golf sense absolutely.

461
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.640
And also her brother is my congressman.

462
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.640
So right, yeah, I know that's the issue. I learned

463
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.440
that when I played with her.

464
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.279
So yeah, yeah, so tell me the premise.

465
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:11.480
Now.

466
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:14.240
The beautiful thing that you get to do that I

467
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:16.200
get to do with having the podcast is I can

468
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:18.079
talk to for as long as I want. We generally

469
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:21.240
go about thirty minutes. And I'm sure in your process

470
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.920
of promoting your book straight down the Middle, you've done

471
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.000
a lot of radio interviews. Chronicles very aggressive about getting

472
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.200
the word out on your book, as they should be

473
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:33.240
because it's very entertaining, thank you. But you know, doing

474
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.640
a radio interview, you may not be talking to a

475
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.240
golf audience, which you are here, and they'll interview you

476
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:40.839
for four or five minutes and cut it down to

477
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:41.759
a thirty second cut.

478
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:44.119
Yeah. No, you know it's been I've been on all

479
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:48.359
kinds of different shows, you know, some golf shows, some sports,

480
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.880
some NPR, and strangely enough, since the book kind of

481
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.039
touches on Buddhism and things like that, I've been booked

482
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:59.559
on a lot of self help shows and just the

483
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.160
oh to tell me about it, Like you think you're laughing,

484
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:07.279
you should hear how much my wife is laughing. And

485
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:10.759
I got booked on a show, and you know, you

486
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.319
get a notice from your publiciste and it says, okay,

487
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:15.279
you know you're gonna be on this show for you

488
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:17.640
know whatever, here's where it runs and all that. So anyway,

489
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.079
I get booked on this show and we start, the

490
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.200
guy calls me up and he goes live and he

491
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:28.480
goes for the next hour, our life strategist, our guest

492
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:31.519
life strategist is going to be Josh Carp And I

493
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:35.920
was like, oh, these poor people. I was like, guest

494
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.599
life strategist, I probably screwed up you know, half the

495
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:41.599
people in Shreveport, Louisiana, you know. And in the one

496
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:43.559
hour I was on, so it's yeah, and then.

497
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:48.200
Pulled with this guy. Yeah yeah, and you talk about

498
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:50.079
golf and he was talking about life strategy.

499
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:53.440
Well we we we worked golf into life strategy.

500
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.359
It's that's good to do on show.

501
00:27:58.160 --> 00:27:59.960
But yeah, it was real. I mean it was hilarious.

502
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.839
It was just like, oh my goodness, guest life strategists,

503
00:28:03.400 --> 00:28:05.160
this is going to be trouble. So but it was fun.

504
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.880
So where was this guy able to I don't even

505
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.000
want to go there. Let's talk about your book. So

506
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.799
what I loved about it is it felt like I

507
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:22.000
was as I'm reading this book, it feels like I'm

508
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:24.839
listening to a Golf Smarter podcast. I mean, what you

509
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:30.920
did is what I've been talking about and interviewing all

510
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:35.920
these different mental coaches and golf instructors with the same concept.

511
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.119
I mean, you put it down on paper, but you

512
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.119
lived it. I'm just getting you know, if I get

513
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.960
thirty minutes to talk to Jamie Zimron or Jim Walden

514
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:49.240
or doctor Joe Parent. I feel like I got all

515
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.519
this phenomenal information out of them for such a brief

516
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:54.279
period of time. You get to kind of live with

517
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:56.720
these people and go work with them, right, Yeah.

518
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.799
Absolutely, I mean it was you know, the kind of

519
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:01.559
the basic premise of the book was testing the non

520
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:05.880
traditional kind of Eastern spirituality inspired world of golf instruction,

521
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.400
and kind of the humorous premise being you know, inner

522
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.119
Piece lowered my handicap, or Will Lwering my handicap helped

523
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:18.079
me find interner piece and there. Yeah, no, oh god.

524
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.359
No, I've just it's like, how did you get to

525
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.200
this point saying okay, I'm going to be able to

526
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.599
write a book about this? How did where did you? Well,

527
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:28.680
you're a writer, right, so you you have a publisher

528
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:31.000
and you proposed this to them? Or how did this

529
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.440
come about?

530
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.000
Yeah? You know what happened was I had written my

531
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:36.640
first book was a biography of this guy Doug Kenny

532
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.799
who wrote Animal House in Caddyshack and start National Lampoon

533
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.119
and died. Yeah it was it was interesting and he

534
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.039
died like very mysteriously right after Caddyshack came out. So

535
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.079
I had finished that book and right around that time,

536
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:55.880
I I had taken up meditation and my wife took

537
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.880
me to a meditation seminar on the North side of Chicago.

538
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.240
And I in there and I always say I was,

539
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:03.599
you know, I was like everybody there was exactly who

540
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.559
you'd expect at a meditation seminar, you know, sandal natural

541
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:12.240
fiber clothing, big long beards, whole deal. And you know,

542
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:14.880
I'm sitting there in like my Chicago white Sox hat,

543
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:20.000
and I'm already bad news to everybody. And we meditate

544
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:21.640
and I was like, you know, I was like I

545
00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:23.400
gotta get out of here, you know, go out and

546
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.079
have dinner, go see a movie. And then we finish

547
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.319
up the meditation.

548
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:28.599
With a white Sox hat. You wanted to go out

549
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:30.359
and have a steak, and everyone else wanted to go

550
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:31.400
have a Tofu burger.

551
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:33.960
Absolutely, oh no. They put out snacks, I remember, and

552
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.359
it was like, you know, yeah, it was like vegetables

553
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.640
and vegan buns. I was like, no thanks. So we

554
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:43.279
go around the room and we all have to talk

555
00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:45.519
about what meditation has done for us. So I said, hey,

556
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.559
you know, meditation is improved my golf game. And I mean,

557
00:30:50.599 --> 00:30:52.839
you know, it's like everybody just looks at me like,

558
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.000
this is you know, if there's a blasphemy in Buddhism,

559
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.799
this was it. And the guy who ran the some

560
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.960
are kind of very calmly, says he goes, Oh, the

561
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:05.359
sak Young is an avid golfer, and the sak Young

562
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:09.200
is this guy sack Young Rimpochet, who is the kind

563
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:13.119
of spiritual leader of this Buddhist organization called Shambala, which

564
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:18.680
actually doc parent has been affiliated with. And so my

565
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.319
first thought was, okay, this is like, you know, the Dali,

566
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.240
Lamasine and Caddyshack. I write magazine articles for a living.

567
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.799
I'm like, I'll go play golf with this guy. You know,

568
00:31:28.839 --> 00:31:31.839
he'll wear flowing orange robes. You know, he'll enlighten me

569
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.119
during the course of eighteen holes. This will be great.

570
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.839
So I started pursuing him, which proved ultimately impossible, but

571
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.039
which took about two years during the course of writing

572
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.000
the book, where I was trying to get him to

573
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.119
play golf with me. And in the meantime I started,

574
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:49.000
you know, I'd read Golf in the Kingdom, I'd read

575
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:51.480
Bagger Vance, I'd read so on Golf, and I was

576
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:54.119
kind of of two minds. You know, half of me

577
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.160
is like, I get it. I totally get this golf,

578
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:02.359
meaning of life, Buddhism, quantum physics deal. And the other

579
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.240
half of me was like, come on, you know, this

580
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:07.920
is Pat summer Ale and Jack Nicholas and plaid pants.

581
00:32:08.680 --> 00:32:12.400
You know it's there. There's not some big link. This

582
00:32:12.440 --> 00:32:14.880
is a big excuse for guys, you know, to say like, oh,

583
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.240
it's a spiritual experience. I'm going to go play aging holes.

584
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.799
And so I, you know, it was like, okay, you

585
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.799
know I started taking these lessons. I thought I'm going

586
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.960
to test this. So what I did really was, you know,

587
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.440
half the book is pretty much me taking non traditional

588
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.640
lessons and the other half is me playing golf with

589
00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:37.359
various kind of spiritual figures of some kind or or

590
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:41.200
either spiritual spiritually inclined golfers or golfers who are you know,

591
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:45.319
spiritual people. So and it was it was a blast.

592
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.319
But that's how it happened that I wrote a proposal

593
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:49.920
after I after I kind of took my first lesson,

594
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.440
and you know, wound up with Chronicle and that was it.

595
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.079
I spent the better part of a year and a

596
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:57.480
half while my wife was pregnant with our fourth child

597
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.000
in ten years. There's great irony in all of them

598
00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:03.359
for her, you know, playing playing golf for a little

599
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:08.039
bit for the timing was really good.

600
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:12.559
Four kids in ten years yeah, okay.

601
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:13.920
Well I'm I'm living it now.

602
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.680
So yeah, right, you're not into college years yet. Huh.

603
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:19.440
You better sell a lot of books, buddy.

604
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.279
That's my plan. The things you don't think about before

605
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.880
you have four kids. Oh my god, I got to

606
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:25.480
pay for these kids to go to school.

607
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:27.559
Do you have any Do you have any daughters? No?

608
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:28.160
Oh? Boys?

609
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:29.960
Oh so you don't have to pay for weddings.

610
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.759
No, but you also have to give up on having

611
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.559
anything nice in your house because everything just gets trash.

612
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:38.960
It's true. Yeah.

613
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:41.799
Yeah, I raised two boys, and there are holes in

614
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:48.079
the wall from from the games of pickle in the hallway.

615
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.759
Or yeah, my brother in laws that there were holes

616
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:52.319
from them throwing each other occasionally into the wall, you know,

617
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:53.160
out of out of.

618
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:55.279
Throwing your kids into the wall.

619
00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.279
No, no, no, no, my brother in law is not not.

620
00:33:57.400 --> 00:33:59.279
Oh okay, they have not.

621
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:10.440
Let's get back to the book. We can talk about

622
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:14.000
your experiences, but I'd really like to talk about the

623
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.639
people that you worked with that we've talked to on

624
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.079
this show, and there is I got a list of

625
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:23.239
at least six people that we've covered on this show

626
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.559
that you've already worked with. And I think what I

627
00:34:26.599 --> 00:34:31.480
want to do is start with doctor Joseph parent tell

628
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.519
me about I've had a chance to play golf with

629
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:36.880
him once, and I've had him on the show like

630
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.199
four times in the last four years. He's just I

631
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.960
just love his stuff. And actually the reason I started

632
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.320
the podcast he was our very first guest is because

633
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:51.559
the book Zen Golf, to me was really a game changer.

634
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.440
Literally it changed my game and my approach to golf.

635
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.119
So it was so great for me to get him

636
00:34:57.159 --> 00:34:59.199
on the show, and it just meant so much to me.

637
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.320
You know, I first of all, I mean, you know,

638
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.280
I had I spent a day with him and just

639
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:09.480
a wonderful guy and great company and you know, in

640
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:11.719
a for real Buddhists too. Yeah, I mean, you know,

641
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.760
really the whole deal. He's he's it. And I was

642
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:17.719
one of the things I told him was, you know,

643
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:19.719
I had reads on golf a couple of times, and

644
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.239
there's this thing where you can where you play golf

645
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:26.599
with people and you can tell they're under the influence

646
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:30.159
of the book without even them telling you. Because several

647
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:31.960
times they played golf with people and they hit some

648
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.199
terrible shot and you'd hear them go under their breath. Interesting,

649
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.480
and I was like, you've read on golf, haven't you.

650
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:44.480
Oh yeah, So yes, I went and I spent the

651
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.719
day with Doc and ken Zieger, who's uh, you know,

652
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.960
kind of his right hand guy. And it was really fantastic.

653
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.519
I mean, we we did some meditation practice and we

654
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.840
you know, went and played played golf and just kind

655
00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:59.079
of talked as we were playing about some of the

656
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:02.280
philosophy behind he's done in some Adoc's background. And you know,

657
00:36:02.320 --> 00:36:06.719
the one thing that was very, you know, really remarkable was,

658
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.920
you know, we talked and he was saying I was

659
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.440
asking him. I'm like, God, wasn't it intimidated intimidating to

660
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:16.039
work with with VJ? You know, because I mean, my god,

661
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.800
you're working with VJ? Saying no, he said, you know,

662
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.800
he said, I have unconditional confidence, and I was like,

663
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:22.519
oh my god, it's like talk about I was like,

664
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:26.320
I'm the anti unconditional confidence guy, you know, so but.

665
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:31.239
Right, just like that's where.

666
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.280
I want to get I'm like, I'm shooting. I was like, okay,

667
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:36.880
there's Michael unconditional confidence on the golf course. But yeah,

668
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:39.760
I mean, you know, it was really you know, I was.

669
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:42.760
I really enjoyed his company and I learned a great

670
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:45.039
deal from him, and really, you know what I what

671
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.559
I enjoyed about him was we could have kind of

672
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.280
a serious I did not convert to Buddhism and working

673
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:52.400
on this book, but I learned a lot about it.

674
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.920
And I learned a lot from him about Buddhism and

675
00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:57.079
applying it to my golf game and really, you know,

676
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:01.239
not being reactive when you do you know, when you

677
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:06.000
do something lousy, and that happens to me a lot.

678
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:08.599
So it was. It was very very good. It was good.

679
00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:09.880
You know, I'd read the book, but it really you know,

680
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.480
to see it in practice. You know, when he hit

681
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.719
a lousy shot, he was just like it was gone,

682
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.800
you know, he was over it and just marched on.

683
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:20.360
And I was like, that is a fantastic example for

684
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:21.599
me to yeah, follow.

685
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:24.119
And that's true. I mean, so good, he's living it.

686
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:25.960
He's walking the he's walking the talk.

687
00:37:26.320 --> 00:37:28.280
Oh absolutely, yeah, good good.

688
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:31.360
Well, I need to break for a little spot here.

689
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:34.280
It's kind of like the perfect place to break because

690
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.159
this episode of the Golf Smarter Podcast is brought to

691
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:42.760
you by Audible dot Com. Are you an audiobook guy?

692
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:46.239
I occasionally listen to audiobooks, but yeah, I'm.

693
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:47.840
Well, then maybe you should sign up for Audible dot

694
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.679
com because they will absolutely there is the internet. It's

695
00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:55.119
leading provider of audiobooks, with more than seventy five thousand

696
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:59.559
downloadable titles across all types of literature, including golf, and

697
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.000
features audio versions of many New York Times bestsellers. Now,

698
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.480
for listeners of the Golf Smarter Podcast, Audible is offering

699
00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:12.119
a free audio book, which is the perfect segue here

700
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:14.599
to give you a chance to try out their service.

701
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:18.320
And so maybe what you should do since your book

702
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.480
Straight Down the Middle is yet to be an audiobook,

703
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:24.440
maybe you and I can work on that together. Okay,

704
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.519
but Doctor Joe Parents, books, Zen Golf, Zen Putting, and

705
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.039
his new one, The Art of the Mental Game are

706
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:37.280
all audiobooks. So if you haven't read that yet, maybe

707
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.320
this is a way to get into Audible dot com.

708
00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:42.480
By just reading Doctor Joe Parent as an audiobook. You

709
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:44.079
can do it while you're in your car. You can

710
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.199
do it while you're working out. You can do it

711
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:49.119
on the range when you're warming up. I mean, I've

712
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.719
seen people with headphones on in the driving range and

713
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.039
I'm like, how do you do that without being I

714
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:55.719
would know how they do it without getting tangled up?

715
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.119
Let alone, but that would be a great place the

716
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:02.559
start Doctor Joe Parent The Art of the Mental Game,

717
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.800
his newest or the classic to me Zen Golf and

718
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:09.960
Zen Putting. They are available at audible dot com and

719
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:11.840
if you'd like to sign up and get a free

720
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.199
audiobook of your choice, it doesn't have to be one

721
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.239
of the ones that we suggested, but you can go

722
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:21.920
to audible podcast dot com slash golf Smarter. It's audible

723
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.800
podcast dot com slash golf Smarter, and we thank them

724
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.280
very much for participating in our show today. But we

725
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.639
want to get back to your next person that you

726
00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:34.320
worked with that we've had on the show, who I

727
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:39.599
think is phenomenal, Jim Waldron. I like having him on

728
00:39:39.639 --> 00:39:41.719
the show. I think he is so right on in

729
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:42.719
what he talks about.

730
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:47.039
Yeah, he you know, really, in addition to getting to

731
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:49.280
work on my golf game and getting to learn all

732
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:52.199
about this stuff, one of the things I really I

733
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:56.960
met such great people. I mean you're really interesting people.

734
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.480
I mean, you know, one thing, and I'm sure you

735
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:01.840
know this from your show, when you really start to

736
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:04.119
look at golf instruction, I mean there's you know, like

737
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.639
a method of instruction pretty much for every golfer on

738
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:09.400
the planet, you know, for there's so many methods out there,

739
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:13.159
right and that, yeah and yeah, and you know, and

740
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.960
different things work for different people, and so it's really interesting.

741
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.400
I mean, I think one of the things I loved

742
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:21.239
about Jim was, you know, he had very you know, theoretically.

743
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.599
I really enjoyed he he is really thought through so

744
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.440
many different disciplines, you know, in a non traditional way

745
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:34.719
and integrated them into his instruction. And you know, and

746
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:37.400
just a fascinating guy, a guy who's done a lot

747
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:41.360
of different things in his life, you know, and comes

748
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:44.519
to this as a really good golfer too, which you know,

749
00:40:44.599 --> 00:40:46.559
which which is which is impressive. But no, we had

750
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.360
a we had a great time. We spent two days

751
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:51.840
together in Portland or outside of Portland and Banks, Oregon,

752
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.719
and yeah, you know it was really you know what

753
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:58.920
one of the things, you know, one of the premises

754
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:03.559
behind you know, say bagger vance, for example, is that

755
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:06.960
there's this idea of having an authentic swing. And one

756
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.880
of the great things about Jim was he was like, well,

757
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.960
that's not true. He's like, he's like, there is not

758
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.559
an authentic swing. And he was like, you know, in

759
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.440
what other world do you hear people say, you know,

760
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:24.960
there's an authentic you know, inner pianist, or an authentic shortstop.

761
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:28.199
You know, it's not like and and one of the

762
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.039
things I love that he said was he goes, you know,

763
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.800
he's like, golf is the one sport. He's like, you know,

764
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.760
if you've kind of been messing around at it for

765
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.320
a few years, you expect to take three lessons and

766
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:41.760
be scratch. And he said, and it's like being a

767
00:41:41.800 --> 00:41:45.079
guy who messes around on the piano and takes a

768
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:49.199
couple lessons and expects to be know, doing concert quality recmanooff.

769
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:54.679
You know, right, He's like, and nobody there's no other

770
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.639
discipline or endeavor in which people expect this, He's like,

771
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.400
But in golf, we all expect it. We all I

772
00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:04.039
think we're going to be here and that we are magically,

773
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.440
you know, just three tips away from being fantastic.

774
00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:11.559
So that that was really, well, that's why we keep

775
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:15.760
playing though, right, absolutely, I mean we all want these

776
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:18.199
single digit handicapped and we don't want to work at it.

777
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:22.800
Yeah, oh for sure. I mean there's no which. Yeah,

778
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:25.039
it's a great it's a great metaphor, certainly for the

779
00:42:25.079 --> 00:42:28.159
way I live my life, you know, you know, wow,

780
00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.039
I could be great and not have to do much,

781
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.400
you know, but uh yes, I mean you know that

782
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:35.960
was We had a great conversation about that, and then

783
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:38.039
you know, we really did. You know. One of the

784
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:41.119
things in his school is called balance point and and

785
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:43.480
he one of the things he said that you know,

786
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:48.440
everybody I worked with, you could really only ultimately when

787
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.480
you go back to integrate stuff in your game, take

788
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.760
away you know one or two things, because you know,

789
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:56.719
everybody told me forty six things, I could go and

790
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.119
integrate all these things in my game. Right. And one

791
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.599
of the things he said that had not occurred to me,

792
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:05.320
which maybe just my stupidity, he said, he said, Ben Hogan,

793
00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:07.760
you know, for all the work he did, you know,

794
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:09.960
hitting balls into his hands blood, He's like he worked

795
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:16.039
on balance all the time. And I was like, well

796
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:18.360
that makes a lot of sense, you know, but it

797
00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:22.039
never occurred to me. You know, we did some some

798
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:25.760
some really interesting balance drills and trying to find the

799
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:28.920
right way for me to find physical balance, and you know,

800
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:30.639
and I think I think it's kind of a quote

801
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:33.239
from Jim, but he said something like, you know, the

802
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:37.119
vast majority of you know, failure in sports performance is

803
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:40.000
due to to poor balance. And yeah, that had just

804
00:43:40.079 --> 00:43:42.519
never really occurred to me. And I think, you know,

805
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:46.119
in sports, where you're moving, your body has a way

806
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:49.119
of naturally balancing itself. Yeah, but it's weird when you're

807
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:53.599
just standing there, you don't have that movement to balance

808
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:54.039
you so.

809
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:57.360
Right, and it becomes right, and it becomes really evident

810
00:43:57.639 --> 00:43:59.960
how off balance you are when you finish your swing

811
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.199
and where you finish your swing if you fall over

812
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:05.360
leave you know.

813
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:09.280
Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, it's funny, like, you know,

814
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:12.960
one of the things people when I've done some interviews,

815
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:14.440
they say, you know, like why do you think golf,

816
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:19.400
Why is golf the sport that gets this you know, spirituality,

817
00:44:19.559 --> 00:44:22.440
looking at your true self in the mirror kind of thing?

818
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:24.119
And I said, you know, I think it's because the

819
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:28.679
ball doesn't move, because you know, in any almost any

820
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:33.440
other sport, you are being reactive, and being reactive for

821
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:35.559
the most part, you know, kind of takes you out

822
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:40.920
of thinking. And with golf, you got nothing to react to.

823
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.920
You just got a ball and you and the club,

824
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:45.440
And if the ball is going to move, it's you

825
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:47.039
who's got to make it move. And I think that's

826
00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:49.760
a big part of it. I think, you know, when

827
00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:54.400
the ball is moving in other sports you can't think

828
00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:56.480
so much. But with golf, you know, you're just like

829
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.559
right there and it's you and your brain and the ball.

830
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:04.559
Which is pretty much your introduction is the worst club

831
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:08.280
in my bag is my brain? And is it Wait

832
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:10.960
a minute, I think it was. I've been quoting this

833
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:12.760
line and I realized, wait a minute, it came out

834
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:16.320
of your book. Is this the one that someone said

835
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.360
to you? Yeah, you have here. Just at the end

836
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.800
of your introduction, someone said to you. She looked at

837
00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:27.039
me and with an amused expression, this is the person

838
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:29.159
who doesn't play golf. You know where I'm going with this, right?

839
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:29.960
Absolutely?

840
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:33.079
Sure, go ahead, it's your line, man, go ahead.

841
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:36.920
I believe the quote was as a friend of my wife's,

842
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:41.000
who was very dubious about this entire endeavoring, we had

843
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:43.559
a couple of great conversations about it, and she's that

844
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:46.559
I was explaining the book to her and she goes, well,

845
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.880
of course, people think golf is like life. You play

846
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:53.280
against yourself and you can never win. And I like,

847
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:55.280
you really understand golf.

848
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:00.280
Like nailed it right there. You play against yourself and

849
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:01.079
you can never win.

850
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:04.599
Yeah, that's for she should keep doing this.

851
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:14.320
Let's move on to jamie' zimron because we just had

852
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:16.480
her on the show again. This is a woman who

853
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:19.920
you talk about coming from different disciplines. She is all

854
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:22.840
over the map and she has brought it all together

855
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:26.360
on the golf course. And I find her absolutely fascinating.

856
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:28.639
Oh yeah, how is your experience with her?

857
00:46:29.559 --> 00:46:32.079
You know, it was? It was, it was great. I mean,

858
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:33.599
I you know, I first of all, like you know,

859
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:36.760
the one you know, my my four kids, my my

860
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:38.760
seven year old is the one who's been most interested

861
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.159
in all this and he and the only thing he

862
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:45.440
remembers other than her being my sonse is that she

863
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:48.920
had me in a driving range with an aikto sword

864
00:46:50.599 --> 00:46:53.000
like a golf club and he just thought that was

865
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:54.960
the coolest. But yeah, I mean, first of all, I mean,

866
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:57.519
Jamie is you know, she's an LBGA pro and just

867
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:02.159
a fantastic, you know, fantastic golfer and on top of it,

868
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:05.239
a great person. But she yeah, she she's integrated aketo.

869
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:09.239
I believe she has a psychology degree as well, and

870
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:14.519
really from Stanford no less exactly, And and you know,

871
00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:17.760
it was really I mean I came to her, I

872
00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:19.400
think at the right time in the book. It was

873
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:21.199
about the middle of the book and I was kind

874
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:26.519
of starting to get the hang of this a little bit.

875
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.679
But so what she said really resonated for me. And

876
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:31.519
one of the things we talked about, which can sound

877
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:34.800
you know, in description a little out there but makes sense,

878
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:39.679
is we kind of talked about moving energy when you're playing,

879
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.239
and you know, we we had a great long discussion

880
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:44.880
on a practice here where she said, y know, what

881
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.960
what what starts your swing? You know, and I gave

882
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.559
her like forty six different answers in like ten seconds.

883
00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.519
You know, I was like, oh, my right hand, no,

884
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:56.719
my shoulder, no, my knee, Oh wait was this? And

885
00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.280
you know, and I couldn't even identify it. And we

886
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:01.920
had a long talk about you know, kind of an

887
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:06.039
aiketo you know, the flow of it, you know, like

888
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:09.000
the guy who created aketo, who's a guy called O Sense,

889
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:14.440
was this great martial arts master who really learned how

890
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:16.599
to use energy. And I mean they said, you know,

891
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:18.920
he could people would attack him and he wouldn't even

892
00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:21.119
have to touch them. He could just kind of turn

893
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:23.320
their energy against them, which I'm not. I don't think

894
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:24.960
I'm going to get to that place in my golf game.

895
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:29.280
But you know, we talked about where, you know, when

896
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:31.760
you're hitting somebody in aiketo, where should the energy be.

897
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:34.360
And it's you know, you want it right in your

898
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:36.960
fist or your hand or your foot when you're making

899
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:38.920
contact with the person, and that's where you want the

900
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:43.079
maximum energy when you do something. I had not really

901
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:47.519
thought of golf that way, about the energy really ultimately

902
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:51.119
going through you into your club. And so we talked

903
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:54.599
about kind of building things from the ground up for

904
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:57.719
lack of a better way of putting it. And she,

905
00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:01.000
you know, one of the things I my swing was

906
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:06.360
just so completely reliant on my arms, you know, and

907
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.280
I was really swinging. I mean I was moving my

908
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:13.119
legs and feet, but my arms were leading everything. And

909
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:15.159
we spent a lot of time on the practice tea,

910
00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:20.320
working on beginning my swing really from my feet and

911
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:22.639
using my left and step to start the back swing

912
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:27.159
kind of pushing down and in, and then my right

913
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.639
in step pushing down an end to start my downswing.

914
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:34.239
And once you know this and I hope this will

915
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:37.199
come across. Once I started doing that, and I was

916
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:40.119
kind of able to envision my arms kind of being

917
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:42.559
along for the ride a little bit more than being

918
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.320
the thing that was generating my swing. That just I mean,

919
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:47.840
I started hitting the ball so much better. I mean,

920
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:52.239
her her lessons were probably you know, among the most

921
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:55.239
impactful in the book and really changed the way I

922
00:49:55.239 --> 00:49:57.719
thought about how I swing a club and made me

923
00:49:57.880 --> 00:49:59.000
enjoy swinging a club.

924
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:00.800
Oh interesting, which.

925
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:02.599
Is also you know, one of the things I learned,

926
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:05.079
and people are was like, what do you take away

927
00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:07.079
from this? You know, And the one thing I learned was,

928
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:13.800
you know, you should really learn to enjoy swinging, because that,

929
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.480
you know, make make your swing something you enjoy, because

930
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:20.000
I think so many of us are swing as a

931
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:23.519
source of frustration, and we see it only as a

932
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.280
vehicle to get the ball from here to there. And

933
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:28.679
I think if you like, really learn to enjoy swinging

934
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.639
a club, you know, it's it's like running, and if

935
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:34.960
you're just running the lose weight, it's a lot different

936
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.000
than if you're running because you really like running.

937
00:50:37.400 --> 00:50:43.079
Wow, that's an excellent point. That really is fabulous. Oh yeah,

938
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:46.639
I wish I came up with it right exactly. You're

939
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:50.000
you're just the messenger, right, absolutely. All right, So other

940
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:51.920
names on here, and I'm going to skim through because

941
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:54.039
I want to get to one specifically, since we're running

942
00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:56.800
out of time. People that have been on this show,

943
00:50:57.079 --> 00:50:59.440
I swear we approached. I hope that we get to

944
00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:00.599
play golf together someday.

945
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:01.880
I would love that anytime.

946
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:05.840
Yeah, but you let's see you work with Catherine Roberts.

947
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:07.679
No, I did not work with Catherine.

948
00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:10.159
Oh but she's on your she's on your website.

949
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:12.719
Yes, yeah, I put her on my website as somebody

950
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:16.639
who you know who has a does something linked to this,

951
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.840
And she and I, okay, we emailed a bunch of times,

952
00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:21.119
and I was actually going to go to one of

953
00:51:21.119 --> 00:51:24.000
her seminars and I can't remember. I think a couple

954
00:51:24.039 --> 00:51:25.719
of my like two of my kids got sick and

955
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:26.920
not gonna happen.

956
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:29.440
We never Well, if you ever get a chance, she's wonderful.

957
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:30.320
Yeah.

958
00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.320
She was interviewed her a bunch of times and spent

959
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:35.480
some time with her as well. Now Steve Cohen over

960
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:39.199
the Shivas Iron Society, and then Michael Murphy. Did you

961
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:40.440
get to work with him?

962
00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:43.519
He doesn't, I mean, yeah, no, he doesn't.

963
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.239
He was he Yeah, I mean we've had him on

964
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:47.280
the show a couple of times. He's a wonderful guy.

965
00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:50.920
Yeah. You know, when I was working on the proposal,

966
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.360
he and I had a brief phone conversation and he

967
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:57.559
and he was great, you know, and really kind are you?

968
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.400
Are you a devote to you of the book? You know,

969
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:02.719
I love You've read it and you know that it

970
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:03.800
once and you're moved on.

971
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:06.519
No, you know, I've read it a couple of times.

972
00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:08.239
One of the one of the reasons I've read it

973
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:10.840
a couple of times is because, you know, like a

974
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:14.519
lot of great books, it takes a while to totally understand.

975
00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:16.840
I don't know if I really totally understand. I did

976
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:17.639
not get it right.

977
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:18.280
Good, thank you.

978
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:21.920
I just like it takes a little bit of work,

979
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:25.039
and I think that's one of the appeals of it

980
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:27.079
is you know, you gotta It's not like you just

981
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:29.119
read it and you're like, okay, boom boom boom. There's

982
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:32.679
an easy answer it it's it's a lot of stuff

983
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:35.119
and it's kind of you know, you got to think.

984
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:38.880
But yeah, I liked the book a great deal.

985
00:52:39.000 --> 00:52:42.840
And yeah, have you ever read the.

986
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:47.360
Match that I buy? Mark Frost, Yeah, I've not read it.

987
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:50.760
I've I've read read it, read it. Oh my god.

988
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:53.039
He was on the show. He talked about it. Besides

989
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:56.280
having a beautiful speaking voice, what a phenomenal story. One

990
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:57.920
of the better books I've ever read in my life,

991
00:52:58.039 --> 00:52:59.039
right next to Years of course.

992
00:52:59.079 --> 00:53:00.000
But oh thank you.

993
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:01.880
Well, of course, all right, I want to ask you

994
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.280
about one one of one of the people we've had

995
00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:06.000
on the show a couple of times, and I get

996
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:09.320
more reaction to this guy than anybody else, Fred Shoemaker.

997
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:13.039
Yeah, and no, I didn't work with Fredd either, Oh

998
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:14.280
but he was.

999
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:16.239
He had another persons on your website.

1000
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:18.159
No, I'll tell you something. I'll tell you that I

1001
00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:20.400
know because I wanted to kind of give people links

1002
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:21.800
to places that are spiritual.

1003
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.280
Okay, got you.

1004
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:28.760
You know what I will say of both Fred and

1005
00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:32.400
and Stephen Pressfield as well, who wrote Bagger Vance. Both

1006
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:34.639
of them I asked I wanted to work with Fred,

1007
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:38.559
and Fred gave me one of the most gentlemanly, polite,

1008
00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.239
you know, turndowns you could possibly give. I mean, he

1009
00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:44.440
was such a nice guy and and really, you know,

1010
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:46.960
it was very kind to me and just said, you know, like, hey,

1011
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:48.840
you can come take my thing anytime. But I really,

1012
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.159
you know, I write golf books, and you know, and

1013
00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:54.000
and and you know, I don't want you necessarily writing

1014
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:56.079
about what I do. And I was like, yeah, that's

1015
00:53:56.199 --> 00:53:58.239
that was totally fine. But I mean, just a total

1016
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:01.119
gentleman and a super nice guy. And the same thing

1017
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:05.639
with Steve Pressfield, who very graciously wrote a blurb for

1018
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:09.199
my book, and I asked him to play golf with me,

1019
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:11.480
and he thought about it and then he said, you know,

1020
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:14.360
I don't want to even though I've written this book,

1021
00:54:14.360 --> 00:54:17.079
I don't want to put myself out there as somebody

1022
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.559
who is speaking authoritatively on spirituality. And I was like,

1023
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:23.800
you know, that makes a lot of sense. And both

1024
00:54:23.800 --> 00:54:27.360
guys just total gentlemen and really nice nice guys.

1025
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:31.360
Okay, good, yeah, well very yeah for a tchoemaker, one

1026
00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:36.639
of the nicest and hard to drink, hard to track down,

1027
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.320
but I loved. I loved having him on the show. Josh,

1028
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.519
I need to know what was your handicap before you

1029
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:44.480
started writing the book?

1030
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:46.280
It was an eighteen?

1031
00:54:46.679 --> 00:54:48.519
What was your handicap when now.

1032
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:53.760
I got down to an eleven last summer kind of

1033
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:56.440
after I finished the summer, after I finished the book,

1034
00:54:56.800 --> 00:54:58.960
I was playing more like a twelve or thirteen. But

1035
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:03.320
you know, like every for you know, I've rationalized that

1036
00:55:04.039 --> 00:55:08.320
I'm an eleven permanently, you know, since it's my best handicap.

1037
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:11.119
It's my handicap forever. And my excuse is last summer

1038
00:55:11.119 --> 00:55:13.480
I only played like about six times because things were

1039
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:15.559
too busy. But when I'm playing a lot, I think,

1040
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:17.079
you know, I'm an eleven, and I got down to

1041
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:20.199
an eleven very consistently for a while.

1042
00:55:21.239 --> 00:55:23.239
Okay, so then all of a sudden, now the whole

1043
00:55:23.239 --> 00:55:26.760
thing is valid, No, absolutely, you know, And these people

1044
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:30.239
did help, and these this thought process has helped.

1045
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:33.519
Yeah, oh oh, it's helped, you know. In mass I mean,

1046
00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:38.159
first of all, my swing is such a so much

1047
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:40.320
better of a swing than it used to be. Okay,

1048
00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:43.159
and I'm a mental game wise, I'm so much better.

1049
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.000
The funny thing, I have a friend I write for

1050
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:47.719
Golf Tips magazine and a friend of mine who's my

1051
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:50.719
editor there. But halfway through the book, he was like,

1052
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:54.360
let me get this straight. He goes, You're going to

1053
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:57.800
see people for one or two days and then you're

1054
00:55:57.800 --> 00:56:00.719
moving on to another person. He's like, anybody will tell

1055
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:04.360
you that is absolutely the stupidest way to possibly improve

1056
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.480
your golf game. He's like, he's like, everybody will tell

1057
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:10.639
you find a person and stick with them. And you

1058
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:13.039
know what was really interesting is they helped me in

1059
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:16.480
ways that no other, you know, instruction I've ever had

1060
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:19.599
has ever helped me. So yeah, it improved my game immensely.

1061
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:22.360
And that's exactly what has happened to me in the

1062
00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:24.079
process of doing this show that I think that my

1063
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:26.119
metal game has gotten so much better and there's been

1064
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:28.480
elements in my swing that have been improved that I

1065
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:30.760
started the show. I was around in eighteen nineteen and

1066
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:33.159
now I'm well, I've gotten down to an eleven. I'm

1067
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:36.079
up to a thirteen now, But yeah.

1068
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:36.360
But you're really at eleven.

1069
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:39.559
No, I still think of myself as a fifteen.

1070
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:43.880
Oh, so you're more honest. I'm like, like, I've been eleven,

1071
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:45.920
you know, I have been.

1072
00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:48.079
And I when I was there, I didn't believe it.

1073
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:50.760
That's part of the problem. When I was down to

1074
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:53.199
an eleven, I'm like, how's that? I know, come on,

1075
00:56:53.679 --> 00:56:55.880
so I couldn't I couldn't maintain it because I didn't

1076
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:56.280
believe it.

1077
00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:58.519
Well, it's I don't know if you've had the experience

1078
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:00.480
if you talked to guys where some guys were sinking digits,

1079
00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:02.800
and they'd say, what a burden it is, because when

1080
00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:05.159
you get there, you're spending your whole life trying to

1081
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:07.000
maintain it, you know, and you're always kind of teetering

1082
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:08.360
on the edge. And I'm like, I'd like to have

1083
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:10.239
that burden. That would be that would be great for me.

1084
00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:12.639
I interviewed one guy who said, have you ever noticed

1085
00:57:12.679 --> 00:57:15.679
the correlation between how many days a month somebody works

1086
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:19.000
and their handicap? So a guy who's like a guy

1087
00:57:19.000 --> 00:57:22.880
who's a nine probably works about nine days a month. Right, Actually,

1088
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.159
that's a really good point.

1089
00:57:25.280 --> 00:57:27.199
Well, what was that that there's that there's that joke

1090
00:57:27.239 --> 00:57:30.159
about Yeah, you it's either your lawyer or your doctor.

1091
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:32.559
They said, you know, the better a golfer they are,

1092
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:34.320
the more you should be worried about the quality of

1093
00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:41.440
service you're receiving. So yeah, but I I will happily

1094
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:43.920
you know, I would happily be you know, a five

1095
00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:46.840
and let people wonder wonder about my capacity as a journalist.

1096
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:49.440
So well, again, the book is called Straight down the

1097
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.440
Middle SHIVI us Irons Bagger Vance and how I learned

1098
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:56.480
to stop worrying and love my golf swing. There you go,

1099
00:57:56.599 --> 00:58:00.039
Jamie's Immron right there, right. Yeah, absolutely, it's great and

1100
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:03.000
it's really a fun book to read. It's very funny.

1101
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:07.800
I love your voice in this and I would definitely

1102
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:11.840
tell people to go on It's available on Amazon, I'm sure,

1103
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.239
and so that means it will be in our golfer

1104
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.559
Smart at golfsmarter dot com. Unfortunately it's not on audible yet,

1105
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:25.320
but hopefully someday it will be. Yeah, exactly, So, Josh Carb,

1106
00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:27.559
thanks so much for joining us on the Golf Smart

1107
00:58:27.639 --> 00:58:29.800
podcast and best of luck with the book.

1108
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:31.760
Oh, thank you for having me on the show.