Sept. 26, 2025

Your Short Game & Wedge Questions Answered by Terry "The Wedge Guy" Koehler

Your Short Game & Wedge Questions Answered by Terry "The Wedge Guy" Koehler
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GS#441 June 17, 2014.  The Wedge Guy, Terry Koehler responds to Golf Smarter listener questions about short game improvement and how to select the right wedge for your game. This was orginally a Members Only episode that has never been shared publically before. 

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Golf Smarter number four hundred and forty one from June seventeen,

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twenty fourteen.

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Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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When you look at golf club ads, go to the

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website and look up every set of irons online, and

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you always got a picture of a six iron, maybe

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a seven. And these guys make every iron of a

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set look like a six iron, because we've been schooled

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for years that that's what a match set looks like.

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But what we've learned over the last decade with the

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advent of these things called hybrids, that when I get

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down below the six and I get to a five

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or four, I get into that mid twenties even high

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twenties block range. This thing called a hybrid is a

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hell a lot easier way to make a twenty two

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degree gop club than to make it look like six iron.

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So we replace those low we're loft at clubs with hybrids.

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But we still have this nine and P that are

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sixteen and seventeen degrees weaker than a six iron that

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looked just like our six iron. Well, that's a very

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different golf club. A six iron in today's world is

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about twenty nine to thirty degrees in most cases. My

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P is forty four, So that's fifteen sixteen seventeen degrees

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between my P and my six. But if I go

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fifteen sixteen degrees the other way, I've got a driver

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or three wood.

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Short game and wedge questions answered with Terry Kaylor.

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This is Golf Smarter.

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Welcome back to Golf Smarter for members only, Terry.

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Oh, thank you, Fred, it's good to be back.

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This question came from Matthew Edwards in Durham, North Carolina,

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and he says, I'm interested in getting some score wedges

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and interested in your thoughts on whether those of us

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that play blades should replace our nine irons in pitching

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wedges with score wedges. I understand the need if you

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play cavity backs, but I play MP sixty eight's and

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wonder if dropping the nine in pitching weg would be

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a smart move. I really do not like the existing wedges,

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and that is why I'm interested in score Goolf.

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I dislike wedge. Are we wedge? We?

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I don't.

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I don't know what he's saying here. He has it

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in quotes, so I'm not sure we. I dislike it

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so much that I bought an extra MP sixty eight PW.

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I see his w wedge, I think is what he's saying,

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or a sandwich and had it bent to a GW loft.

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The vocy I have in the bag at fifty four

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degrees feels like an alien compared to the blades.

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I'm not going to comment on that last, but you know,

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I here my thought, and we know that this scoff

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club outperforms anything in the wedge category in the higher

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laws forty eight. No, we know that it's er out

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performs anything in the thin faced cavity back. And when

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I say that, I'm talking about your distance. Dispersion patterns

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are about ninety percent built into your god cleven ten

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percent your fault. I mean people complain about I can't

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control the distance my wedges. I've bought all the top brands.

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You know, I'm pretty good with my seven six seven

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eight iron, but I'm terrible with my nine and pitch

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it must be me. Well, guys, I'm just going to

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give you absolution. It's not you, it's the clubs you're playing.

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They throw horribly broad dispersion patterns. Based on our experience

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watching them on iron bron you move impact up and

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down the face, you're going to get wildly different distance deliverables.

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It's not your fault, and Score has a solution for that.

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With regard to this listener and your Mizunos, I will

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tell you you this. By the full set of scores

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hit the nine equivalent and the p equivalent against your Mizunos,

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and if they're not better, send them back and we'll

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refund that part of your set. How's that.

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That's an amazing offer and one that you've stood by forever.

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Well, when you make a product like this, you can

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back it up because we have had you know, less

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than one percent of the golfers send these clubs back

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and say, you know, they just don't work for me.

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And on about two thirds of those, we've helped them

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get the right shaft in their scores and send them

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back and then they do work for them. Nobody talks

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about shafts and scoring clubs, and people go will always

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play steel shafted wedges. That's what I'm ordering. Don't order

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your high loft clubs based on what you've always played

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in your wedges. Order room based on the iron shafts

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you have, because those of the shafts you're used to,

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and we want to give you a seamless transition from

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your six, seven, and eight right on the end of

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your set of scores. And we do that by getting

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the weight and the flex in your shaft match and

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the material matched.

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There was a question that actually I saw that I

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wanted to come back to because it kind of fit.

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What you were just saying.

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Somebody here, Stephen Davis of Colorado Springs says, when I

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was fitted for irons, they made a big deal about

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getting the right flex. However, when I purchased wedges, it

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seemed like they were all the same flex. Do you

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think there's any need for different flexes in those wedges?

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My answer is unequivocably yes. And I was with a

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very well known head golf professional, and I won't mention

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him because he's on staff for a major brand. We

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were doing a fitting with some of his members who

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had requested it, and he made the comment, I had

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no idea the shaft in the high loft clubs had

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that much impact. Wow. And we watch people totally change

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their launch conditions, their dispersion pattern and everything by getting

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them in the right shaft. You know, we select the

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shaft based on the weight match to our profile, our

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strength profile, and a flex match to our strength profile.

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But you know our clubs that we call wedges or

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full smleen golf clubs, they are just an extension of

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our iron set. Why would we not want that extension

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to be as seamless and as smooth a transition as

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we possibly could have.

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M M all right, let's talk about let's talk about

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hitting the ball. We've talked about the equipment. Let's talk

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a little bit about improving your scoring. Because this is

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the place where everyone has an issue. From from low

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handicap to high handicap golfers, they all seem to be

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asking the same type of shot, you know, having the

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same type of problems this one.

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Let's see what he says.

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Okay, So the different grit types of grips that should

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be using on a chip versus a pitch shot, does

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the length of the chip or the pitch shot, change

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the grip.

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What about the grip pressure.

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Well, I'm a believer first of ball, and grit will

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start the back end of that. The grip pressure, I

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think is something that you want to keep as constant

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as possible. But the closer the shot, the more delicate

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the shot, you really want to hold the club wider

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because that gives you more feel and more precision. So

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you're going to grip the club lighter on a little

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soft pitch over the collar, You're going to fly them

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all eight or ten feet, let it run down to

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the hole. You're obviously going to hold the club a

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lot lighter on that shot than you would if you

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were hitting a full eight hor or full five R.

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But even then, I'm a big believer in a light grip.

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And the vast majority offers hole the club too tightly,

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and we grip down because of other pressure, and you know,

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we're trying to make sure we don't hit it left

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or this or that. But grip pressure being light is

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one of the most fundamental things about God. Moving your

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hands up and down the grip I think is a

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very good idea. When you're the more delicate the shot,

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the more precise your impact needs to be and the

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club speed needs to be to get that exact carrying roll.

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You're looking for work slower and get closer to your work.

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And getting closer to your work means you move your

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hands down on that grip. I'm not a big believer

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in getting all the way down on the steel, but

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close to it, and that lets you have you know less,

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less error because you're, as I say, you're closer to

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your work, reflect your knees a little more, you're down

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a little more, and you're move in that club slower.

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So we use a grip that Lambkin bills for us

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that we really like because it's an inch longer than

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the standard golf grip and it has less taper in it.

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So from your normal hand position, you grip down an inch,

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grip down another inch, even another inch, the club doesn't

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dramatically change the feel in your fingertips, so it because

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it's pretty much the same taper. And we really like

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that grip because it facilitates scoring range control.

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And that does I mean, obviously it affects the pressure

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that you have in your hands. That's why so many

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guys are putting the fact grips on their putters now

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because just to loosen the grip, to loosen the pressure

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on their hands.

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No, I agree, And you know, one of the trends

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and I play one of those, and the smaller size,

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but I think it works really well. I haven't gone

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to the the real big ones. I just like that

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the smaller size of these larger putter grips. But a

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trend that we see a lot is people going to

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bigger grips in their orange and woods, and I don't

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think that's a very good idea because people like the

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feeld of the larger grip because they're gripping the club

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too much up in their palm. I'm kind of drifting

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from that question. But the golf and go back and again,

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I'll go back and direct you to mister Hogan's five

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Lessons and there's a whole chapter on how to hold

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a golf club. And there is one really correct way

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to hold a golf club. And it doesn't matter whether

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you overlap or interlock or even full finger. The golf

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club has to be held in the fingers for the

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hands to work properly through impact. And when you get

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that big grip and get that club up in your palms.

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It is costing you significant yardage because you're taking the

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accelerator of your proper hand action. You've just removed it.

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And a friend of mine once used the term he

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holds it like a ham sandwich. And there's so many

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bad grips out there, and this game is impossible to

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play with a bad grip. You got on the PGA

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to where you do not see bad grips out there.

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And the other thing that I've noticed on the short

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game shots the chipping and pitching, not only do you

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see a lot of white knuckles. I mean you see

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people really squeezing, squeezing the grip, and then you can

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see it in their shoulders. You see the tension and

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their neck and their mouth and their jaw. I mean,

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there's clearly a lot there. But I've also noticed that

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on the chipping and the pitching, when you're not taking

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a full swing, it seems like people tend to try

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to sweep the club more than descend on it and

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come down on the ball and you know, you know,

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get through the ball, and then they don't understand why

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the ball releases all the way across the green well.

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People have a missed perception of the two things. One

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is this term accelerate through the ball, so you got

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more of these jabby type techniques out there. And the

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reality of it is it is almost impossible to decelerate

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a golf club. You can change the rate of acceleration,

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but if the club starts at zero at the top

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of the backswing, you know, on a short shot, it's

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pretty hard to move it fast and then slow it down.

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What people do is they start the downswing too quickly.

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And the best tip I ever had in my life,

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one of the best short game practitioners in amateur golf

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I ever saw back at my days at Faroks Ranch

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in San Antonio, and Dave was just beautiful around the greens,

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and we had this delicate surgeon's touch, and his simple

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00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:43.679
swing thought was take the club back slowly to the

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00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:45.399
end of where I think it needs to go, the

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00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.320
end of the backstrope, and then I feel like gravity

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00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:50.279
just lets my hands and my arms and the club

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00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.120
drop into the golf ball. He didn't think about accelerating

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00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.639
at all because he just thinks gravity. He said, right

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before I take it back, I just think gravity, And

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that is his tempo thought and it's really a if

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anybody's having trouble with their short pitches and their chip shots,

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00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.000
it's a pretty good swing thought to mess around with.

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And you know, we get this accelerate through the ball

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00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.399
so ingrained. Well, if I start at zero and I

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get to the ball at two miles an hour, I

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still accelerated.

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The other thing I've come to my own personal realization is,

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especially on the short game, is that when I'm taking

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00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:40.519
not a full swing, that if I keep my wrists,

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00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.759
my left wrist, my forward wrists, you know, from breaking

244
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from and keeping the back of my hand towards the

245
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target and not following through all the way and coming

246
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:59.039
up high, has a huge impact on the direction of

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my chipping.

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Absolutely, And the easiest way to think about chipping and

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00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:08.159
pitching is that as you start into your down swing,

250
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.000
the back of the left wrist passes the ball before

251
00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:14.399
the clubhead gets to it. And if you always make

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00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:17.039
sure that happen. I don't like to think about hitting

253
00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.200
down on the ball, but if you if you make

254
00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.960
because I think that that's changing my hope for I

255
00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:24.320
don't want to hit down on the ball. I want

256
00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.159
to hit a golf shot, and I want to make

257
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.080
a swing. I don't want to hit the ball at all.

258
00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:30.600
I don't want to hit anything. I want to take

259
00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:33.840
this club back and through in an orientation that's going

260
00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:35.399
to make the ball do what I want it to do.

261
00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:38.480
And if you always just think about the back of

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00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.600
the left hand gets past the if there's a plane

263
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.639
of glass at the golf ball, that back of that

264
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.000
left hand breaks that paint of glass. That clubhead doesn't

265
00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.120
break it. It's already broken when the clubhead gets there.

266
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A little different, a little different pane of glass example

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00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.759
than the one used in five lessons that talk about

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swing plane. And I'm talking about what gets to the ball.

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00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:06.639
First, good thank you question from Matt in Brentwood. How

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00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:08.759
do we know which scoring club to use? From the sand?

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00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:13.679
A very frequent question. Are different types of sand a factor?

272
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.039
Well, different types of sand are a factor in bunker play.

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00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:19.879
The tour pros don't have to deal with that because

274
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.399
they play tour qualities and every week, but the rest

275
00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.399
of us do. And you know, I to me, when

276
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.039
you walk into bunker, I walk into the bunker typically

277
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.000
with two clubs in my hand, and it might be

278
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.519
my fifty five and fifty eight If it's a shorter

279
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:35.000
bunker shot, it might be my fifty one and fifty five.

280
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.159
If it's a longer bunker shot, I've hit bunker shots

281
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.120
with my forty seven, but all of the score soul

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00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.480
designs are designed to make them a good bunker club.

283
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.440
And I look at the bunker shot as how far

284
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:48.000
do I need to carry it? How far do I

285
00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.200
want it to roll out? And I don't want to

286
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:52.000
have to take a big old cut in the sand,

287
00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.960
and so I will typically if I've got a longer

288
00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.399
bunker shot, which typically means you got a lot of

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00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.600
green to work with. On a longer bunker shot, I

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00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.840
very often will lay open a fifty one or you know,

291
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.919
or even a forty seven and make them just the

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00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:09.120
same bunker swing i'd make with a fifty eight. On

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00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.440
the shorter shot, it's going to come out lower, it's

294
00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.480
going to roll out more, and you know, to me,

295
00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.879
getting up and down out of bunkers is you know,

296
00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.799
going to be a relative rarity for the average amateur player.

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What you're trying to do is not make more than

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00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.039
three shots from that bunker, right, get it on the green,

299
00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:28.919
give yourself a putt somewhere in the twenty foot or

300
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:31.080
less range. You're not going to hurt yourself. You hit

301
00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.120
in the bunker, you know you you've already kind of

302
00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:36.080
guns this hole a little bit and get it out

303
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.679
of the bunker. And unless you have a place where

304
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.600
you like to go practice bunker shots an hour or

305
00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:42.399
two a day, you know getting up and down out

306
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:44.799
of the bunker is going to be the exception rather

307
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:48.039
than the rule. I mean, the best guys on tour

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00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.519
two thirds and they do this for a living.

309
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:55.320
So yeah, yeah, let let's let's get our expectations in

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00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.360
check here, because we are not tour players, and we

311
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:01.200
think that we have all those shots in our bag

312
00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.000
because we saw somebody on TV do it.

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00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.840
Right, if you played, if I would tell your listeners

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00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.639
all of it, if you played tour bunkers, and we'd

315
00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.000
all be ten times better bunker players if we got

316
00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.320
to play the sand they play, they're watered down. Let

317
00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:17.879
me tell you something I learned the other day. I

318
00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:21.879
didn't know this has been several months ago. Watch the telecast,

319
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.120
and the caddies always go into the bunker on the

320
00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.039
side of the bunker, away from the hole, and they

321
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:31.159
rake the bunker directly away from the flag. So the

322
00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.799
bunker rake grooves go from that spot right toward the

323
00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:38.480
flag because it's an easier bunker shot to hit it

324
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.759
with the grooves than across the grooves. And do they

325
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.960
do that out of courtesy? No, they do that because

326
00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:48.799
they get fined if they rake it any other way. Oh,

327
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:51.000
I mean, these guys got a lot of advantages. There's

328
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.159
also a tour sand texture. Go watch the guys on

329
00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.240
the tour walk in the bunkers. They don't really grind

330
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.639
their feet into the sand because the bunkers are so

331
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.759
firm they don't need to. They'll move them a little bit,

332
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.839
But you don't see those guys walk into these fluffy

333
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:08.240
bunkers and bury their feet like we have to sometime

334
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:09.960
and then figure out how to get out of this

335
00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:11.200
dalkol powder stuff.

336
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:15.599
Tell me why we burn our feet like that? Why

337
00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:18.079
do we bury our feet like that in bunkers?

338
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.519
Just so that your feet won't move when you go

339
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:23.599
into your swings. They'll give you a stable platform.

340
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:28.640
Okay, Derek wants to know, all conditions being equal, what

341
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:32.559
do you think has more control for in between distant shots,

342
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.240
stepping up on a gap wedge or easing up on

343
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:36.079
the pitching.

344
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:40.079
Wedge neither one. First of all, your gaps are too big.

345
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.319
If you're playing conventional golf club, you have a twenty

346
00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.759
five yard fifteen yard gap in there. Probably at the

347
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.400
very least, the easiest way to hit the end between

348
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.559
shots for recreational golfer particularly, but even for tour player

349
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.039
is take the longer club, grip down on a three

350
00:17:56.119 --> 00:17:57.119
quartern inch into swing it.

351
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.279
That's it, really it.

352
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:06.119
Yeah, it'll cut your gap about in half. Ever, go

353
00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:09.440
amp up a wedge or a short iron, because what

354
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:11.599
happens is you swing harder, the ball goes higher and

355
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:12.759
it goes shorter properly.

356
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:14.240
Uh huh.

357
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.640
Phil mickelsoning a day about day lost to us opening

358
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.960
by doing that. Actually, now that you think about it, you.

359
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.559
Know it had a great conversation a couple episodes ago

360
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:22.440
with Dave Stockton.

361
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.000
Really, oh really, you.

362
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.519
Got to go back and listen to that one. That

363
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:30.720
was absolutely amazing. That we spent well over an hour

364
00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.599
together on the phone and it was not just unputting,

365
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.200
and it was definitely a lot of the mental game.

366
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.200
But course management in a way or not, I don't

367
00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.880
want to say courseman strategy beyond course management, the mental

368
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.000
the mental side of strategy that I thought was so fascinating.

369
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.839
But yeah, and you know, he's just a wealth It was.

370
00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.440
It was remarkable. One of the things that really stood

371
00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:57.799
out to me that he said was, I have when

372
00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.920
I step up to the ball game and I'm looking

373
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.319
at the shot, there is one of two shots that

374
00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:08.880
I have, a low one or a high one.

375
00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:09.359
Interesting.

376
00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:11.200
Yeah, you want to respond to that.

377
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.440
You're making down that simple, right, Yeah, he.

378
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:14.759
Says, I'm either going to make a low shot or

379
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:16.480
high shot. That's all I'm thinking about.

380
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.880
Wow, I'd love to get a lot more accomplished than that.

381
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:27.119
And that's why he's the he's the one who's coaching

382
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:31.839
Rory McElroy and Phil Mickelson and not you have a

383
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:33.759
response to you have something you want to say about that.

384
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:36.000
But you know, I think that makes a lot of sense.

385
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.039
And then you know whether he's doing that with the

386
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.079
same club or not. But he's narrowing it down to

387
00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.119
two techniques, or you could narrow it down to two clubs.

388
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.759
You know, you could go and say, you know what,

389
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:47.279
I have a really good chipping technique, a really good

390
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.039
you know chip pitch technique. And when I get to

391
00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.799
a shot, you know, I'm a multi club guy. You know, uh,

392
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:58.480
you know standing guy was blinking on his last name.

393
00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.400
But you know a lot of the teachers are you'll

394
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.039
really get good with your sum standently and and you know,

395
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:05.559
learn how to hit all the shots. I don't think

396
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.400
there's a wrong approach. My approach is I'm a recreational player.

397
00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:11.359
I don't play as much as I want to. I don't.

398
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:14.079
I don't have that kind of command over my fifty

399
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.960
five or fifty one anymore. And I go up and

400
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:19.000
I look at it, it's like, you know what club

401
00:20:19.400 --> 00:20:23.839
with my chipping stroke, my basic learned stroke is going

402
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.799
to get the flight and the rollout that this shot demand.

403
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:29.720
And if it's you know, use of fifty eight, I

404
00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:31.720
hit a fifty eight. If it's use of you know,

405
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.720
forty three, I'm gonna chip with a forty three. And

406
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.359
on a lot of shots that I run to, it's

407
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:41.799
like you wide sided the green. You're four or five

408
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.720
feet off the fringe, but it's really not puttable and

409
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.759
the pen is sixty feet across the green. Well shot

410
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.319
that I learned when I was a little kid that

411
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.240
I still use a lot is I basically put it

412
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:53.799
with a foreign. I take my foreign, I take my

413
00:20:53.839 --> 00:20:56.160
putting stands for my putting grip. I grip it lighter

414
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.799
because the foreign is lighter than the butter. And I

415
00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:01.000
set the club up where it's more up on its toe,

416
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.319
and I just basically put it and it gets it

417
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:05.720
just enough loft flight over the edge of green. It

418
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.640
rolls out pretty much like a putt wood and you know,

419
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:11.920
get it within five six feet the whole or better.

420
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:15.880
Well, that works well when you have the uh your

421
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:19.119
chip has the flag all the way on the other

422
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:19.720
side of the green.

423
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:21.960
You've got to so you're gonna want this ball to

424
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:22.640
roll you right.

425
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:23.960
You want the ball to be on the ground as

426
00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:25.599
long as possible, but you got to get it onto

427
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:26.240
the green first.

428
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:28.759
I gotta get on the green because if I if

429
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.920
I hit that long, hard putt through the collar right,

430
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.440
and the collar isn't really smooth. Now, when you go

431
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:36.279
to the US Open next week at Pinehurst, I was

432
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.599
out there a couple of weeks ago. Fabulous plays. They'll

433
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.279
be putting from all over the place because they're only

434
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:42.240
gonna be two cuts at Pinehurst. They're gonna be a

435
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.799
green cut and a fairway cut. That's all it's gonna be.

436
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:46.920
There's no deep rough at Pinehurst. It's gonna be wonderful.

437
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.440
But you know, but if you have a good smooth surface,

438
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:52.400
your best, but your worst put's probably gonna be as

439
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:54.599
good as your best chip. But if you do have

440
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.599
to get it over some scruffy stuff or even a

441
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:59.839
sprinkler head or something like that, that that putt with

442
00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.759
a foreign or even a four hybrid, it's a good shot.

443
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.960
You can go spend five minutes with it around your

444
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:06.599
putting grain and get a feel for it and put

445
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:07.400
it in your arsenal.

446
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.720
I actually recently that happened to me. The I was

447
00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.559
on the fringe, but the ball was setting just up

448
00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.839
against the taller grass right the rough there. So my

449
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.440
putter just couldn't cut through that, and so I pulled

450
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.319
out my four hybrid and hold it.

451
00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:29.519
I mean, well, that fabulous. And will say that's the

452
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:31.960
place you want to use that belly wedge. But let

453
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:35.839
me tell you, unless you practice that belly wedge, man's

454
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.000
and it's a wonderful shot. Don't get me wrong, man,

455
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.160
you need to practice that because the ball comes off

456
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.079
a lot hotter off the edge of the sandwidge than

457
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.440
it does off the face of a putter, a lot hotter.

458
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:47.880
And if you're hitting that little belly wedge shot and

459
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:50.440
you're playing for it to be really really hot, and

460
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.200
you swing a half an inch low, three quarter of

461
00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:55.880
an inch low, you just hit your little wedge put

462
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:01.400
about four feet. Yeah, if it goes that far. Yeah, yeah,

463
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.599
and you might double hit it.

464
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.240
Now explain, I'm not exactly sure what you mean my

465
00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:06.880
belly wedge belly.

466
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:10.000
Where you set the way the ball's up against the collar, Yeah,

467
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:12.440
you can't get anything on it. So you take your

468
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.319
sand wedge and you just hit the ball right in

469
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:16.200
the equator with the with the leading edge.

470
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.519
Oh I see, I see, okay, okay, yeah, I could not.

471
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.319
I would not have the confidence to pull that one off. Yeah,

472
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:25.680
that has got to be you really got to practice that.

473
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:33.119
Yeah you do. So.

474
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:37.799
Now let's take the scenario of your your ten feet

475
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:41.920
off off the green and yet the flag is only

476
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.240
a few feet You know, you don't have to go

477
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:46.000
all the way, you don't have to roll it forever,

478
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:49.119
but you definitely got to get the ball in the

479
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.279
air to get on the green because there's a sprinkler

480
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:53.480
head in your way or something.

481
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:55.599
But you don't want the ball to roll far.

482
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.319
So why what is the difference in that shot versus

483
00:23:58.359 --> 00:23:59.799
what you talked about your four iron?

484
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:02.759
Well, I think there you're go in the opposite. You

485
00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:05.599
need high loft on the club, as Dave Stockton said,

486
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:08.640
and you like it to stop pretty quickly. The biggest

487
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:10.880
problem that people do with that shot. First of all,

488
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:13.240
short shining yourself is not the way to shoot its score.

489
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.000
So you want to keep those two a minimum. But

490
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.880
chances are that shot, you know, you might have it

491
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.720
where the green's going to kind of run away from

492
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.160
you possibly, but you know, six feet long of the

493
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:25.960
hole is just as good as six feet short of

494
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.759
the hole. So make sure you don't get so cute

495
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:31.000
with it as they say that you don't it and

496
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.759
have that shot over again. It doesn't have to stop

497
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:39.440
short of the hole. And so on that shot, you know,

498
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.799
typically you want to lay the face open a little bit,

499
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:43.640
and you want to pick the club up a little

500
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:46.359
quicker to get a little steeper angle of descent, and

501
00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:48.279
look at the back edge of the ball right with

502
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:50.200
the ball and you know, right at the spot of

503
00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:52.559
the ground right behind the ball and drop that club

504
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:55.279
again with gravity, drop that club down to that slot

505
00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:58.319
and and you know, with a little bit of follow through,

506
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:00.359
it should pop up for you. But again, that's a

507
00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:03.160
shot you need to practice. And what's really a good

508
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.000
little exercise late in the afternoon. Just take your you know,

509
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:08.200
a couple of wedges, your gap in your hand or whatever,

510
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:10.680
and go out around. You know, you don't have to

511
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.799
be on a green, go the driving range, get you

512
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.200
a bag of balls and nobody's over there, and just

513
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.279
chip around, hit little different shots, see what swings produce,

514
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:21.160
what ball flights, and chalk those up to memory. Learn

515
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:23.440
what your golf club will do. You know, you can

516
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.039
get a bag of balls and go out to the

517
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:26.640
range and the far end of the range, if it's

518
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.039
not crowded, chip around on the tee line, and then

519
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:31.599
go hit them all. Get you some practice in.

520
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:36.200
You gave me a tip years ago that I still repeat,

521
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.279
I still think is one of the great ones, and

522
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:40.759
that would be looking at the front of the ball,

523
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.119
aiming for the front of the ball.

524
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:45.720
Yeah, I'm a big believer in that with most of

525
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.799
your shots, you know, keeping kind of folks and not

526
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.240
just look at the ball. Look at the front edge

527
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.759
of the ball that decide toward the target, and it

528
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.279
makes your contact crisper. It helps me gets fine. It's

529
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.400
the old am small miss small thing. Let me look

530
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.400
at the front edge ball because i want ball first

531
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:03.880
contact the shot that I was just talking about, and

532
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:05.559
I'm going to shift my focus over to the back

533
00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:07.519
of the ball on that one. If I'm in the bunker,

534
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.400
I'm going to shift my focus to a spot behind

535
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:09.720
the ball.

536
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:13.240
Love that tip. Love that tip.

537
00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:15.319
It really makes for crisper shots.

538
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:16.160
It really does.

539
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:19.480
It really does, because so many times when you're in

540
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.319
that situation, you hit about four inches behind the ball

541
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.480
and then the club face bounces off the ground, hits

542
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.039
the top of the ball and it goes nowhere.

543
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.599
Either that or the club sticks in the dirt and

544
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:31.319
the ball didn't move it all. And that's really fun.

545
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:32.440
That's really embarrassing.

546
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:34.920
Oh my. So one of the things, I had a

547
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:37.200
four foot shot and I hit at zero inches.

548
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.400
No, that's called a practice swing. Y.

549
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.200
One of the things that people frequently ask about the

550
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:52.400
score score golf clubs is that you don't have a

551
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:57.519
sand wedge, right, you have the different lofts and again,

552
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:00.759
explain how the forty one sixty one one works. Score

553
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.640
Golf forty one sixty one works, and then let's talk

554
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.640
about what a sandwige is and why you don't have

555
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.960
a designated sandwich.

556
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:09.960
Well, first of all, Score forty one sixty one. The

557
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:11.880
name comes from the fact that we make every golf

558
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.319
club from forty one to sixty one degrees, make twenty

559
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.079
one different club heads because over on this set of irons,

560
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.319
your eight iron maybe thirty seven degrees, on this set

561
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:22.160
of irons of maybe thirty nine, on this set of

562
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.480
irons of maybe thirty eight. And what we want to

563
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:27.200
do is to be able to exactly gap the short

564
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.680
end of your set four degrees for a long hit,

565
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.000
or possibly even three for a shorter hit, or maybe

566
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.720
five degrees. We want to give you the exact gapping.

567
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.279
So if you have a thirty seven degree eight iron,

568
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.079
your prescription is probably forty one, forty five, forty nine,

569
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:45.319
fifty three, fifty seven. Well, nobody makes those. I don't

570
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.079
want to go bend around on a golf club. These

571
00:27:47.119 --> 00:27:50.480
are my precision tools, so we do make them, and

572
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:54.880
it lets us have infinite control over your gaping to

573
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.640
get you down to these differentials. Between clubs that give

574
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:00.480
you what you want. And the reason we don't anything

575
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.599
sand wedge, gap wedgeor whatever, because they're all scoring clubs.

576
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.640
I mean, I talked a while ago about walking into

577
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.559
a bunker with a forty seven and a fifty one.

578
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.039
I got a long bunker shot. Those that's v sole

579
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:12.799
design that we have that's been proven for twenty five years.

580
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:16.880
It works regardless of a loft. I mean, we were

581
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.039
out messing around a day hitting flop shots with a

582
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:21.279
forty three. I mean, who thinks about hitting the flop

583
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.480
shot with a nineer? You know, but you can do that,

584
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:26.519
and it gives you another shot if you're willing to

585
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:28.920
go play around with it in experiment with it. But

586
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.160
you know, the idea is, if I have a real

587
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.039
close bunker shot, not much green to work with, not

588
00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:36.880
much carey to do the fifty eight or nine sixty

589
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:39.319
sixty one, that's a great golf club for that because

590
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:40.839
it's going to pop up a little higher and stop

591
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:43.319
a little quicker. But if I left it down and

592
00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:45.440
it rolled back maybe to the middle of the bunker

593
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:46.880
and the pins up in the middle of the green,

594
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:50.000
and I got a thirty or thirty five yard bunker shot.

595
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:52.319
I got to put a pretty big cut on it

596
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.240
with that fifty eight, and I don't want to make

597
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.200
that big a cut on it because if I catch

598
00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:57.720
it a little thin, it's over the green and out

599
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.640
of bunds or whatever back there. So that shot, I

600
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.839
may take a fifty five or even a fifty one

601
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:05.440
and just make a more control swing, Let it come

602
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.000
out lower and run across some of that green instead

603
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:09.319
of trying to fly it all the way to the hole.

604
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.000
Explain to me again, you talked once about why. I

605
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:19.000
remember specifics of the conversations that we've had, but we've had.

606
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.599
So many conversations. That's probably why.

607
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.440
But the loft difference between what I think you explained

608
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:32.440
the driver to the five iron versus the scoring clubs different.

609
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:34.480
Well, yeah, exactly. You know when you look at golf

610
00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:36.960
club ads out there, go to the website and look

611
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.319
up every set of irons online sold, and you always

612
00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:41.319
got a picture of a six iron. Maybe a seven

613
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:43.400
used to be a five back in the old days

614
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.880
before loss for chain. But and these guys make every

615
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.720
iron of the set look like a six iron, because

616
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:50.960
we've been schooled for years that that's what a match

617
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.960
set looks like. But what we've learned over the last

618
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.640
decade with the advent of these things called hybridge, that

619
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.480
when I get down below the six and I get

620
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:01.079
to a five or four, I get into that mid twenties,

621
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:05.759
even high twenties prickarly low twenty loft range. This thing

622
00:30:05.799 --> 00:30:07.720
called a hybrid is a hell a lot easier way

623
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.000
to make a twenty two degree golf club than to

624
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:11.960
make it look like six iron. You know, three irons

625
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.000
are really hard to hit. I'm sorry, They're really hard

626
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.359
to hit for anybody. And so we've replaced those lower

627
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.160
lofted clubs that are only six or eight degrees stronger

628
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.880
than a six iron. We replaced those with hybrids. But

629
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.400
we still have this nine and P that are sixteen

630
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:31.279
and seventeen degrees weaker than a six iron that looked

631
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:33.599
just like our six iron. Well, that's a very different

632
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.160
golf club. The illustration you referred to is a six

633
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:39.480
iron at today's world is about twenty nine to thirty

634
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.799
degrees in most cases. Okay, so my P is forty four,

635
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.440
so that's fifteen, sixteen seventeen degrees maybe between my P

636
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:52.640
and my six. But if I go fifteen, sixteen degrees.

637
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:54.960
The other way, I've got a driver or three wood,

638
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:58.200
so I've got on the six iron down, I've got

639
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:00.200
a driver, hit a three wood, hit a small dollar

640
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.200
head with a five wood on it. I got a hybrid,

641
00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:04.200
maybe two hybrids, and then an iron and then my

642
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.200
six iron. But the other way, I've got four clubs

643
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.200
that look just like my six iron, the seven, eight

644
00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:11.640
nine pitch, and then three or four clubs that just

645
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.559
looked just like a nineteen fifty nine wedge. I got

646
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:18.279
two head designs for everything from thirty to sixty degrees,

647
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.279
and I've got five head designs from thirty to twelve degrees.

648
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.640
There's no logic to that whatsoever. But you know, only

649
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:29.599
on a couple of occasions have companies said maybe a

650
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.680
match that of iron shouldn't match at all. But they

651
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:35.880
never were there with commitment. You know, if you believe that,

652
00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:39.799
then don't make any that do. That's what score golf.

653
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:42.440
So in your score golf set, there's forty one to

654
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.319
sixty one degrees, there's twenty one degrees. There's seven different

655
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:49.680
head designs. The weighting changes every three degrees, aloft each

656
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:52.079
three degrees, there's another head design to take you down

657
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.839
the next three, so we optimize weight distribution for the

658
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.759
I got exact loft of that golf club so that

659
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.640
you at better trajectory control, which is distance control. And

660
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:05.720
you know the short end of the set, your misses

661
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.799
are long and short mostly and if your misses are

662
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:10.720
left and right the club, the club didn't have anything

663
00:32:10.759 --> 00:32:12.799
do with that. That swing path and clubhead at face

664
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.359
ankle long and short, the club had a lot to

665
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:17.640
do with that. But we've all been taught it's our fault.

666
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.680
Score Golf, it's absolution. It's not your fault. You can't

667
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:21.559
control your distance.

668
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.759
Well again, everything that you've you've offered your advice, it's

669
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:33.279
it's amazing how the insight that you have on the

670
00:32:33.319 --> 00:32:36.799
game as but you come from the manufacturing side, from

671
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.920
the design side of clubs. I you know, I used

672
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:45.319
to uh have you know I played Mizuno clubs as

673
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.359
irons as well, But I've replaced that end of my

674
00:32:50.359 --> 00:32:53.640
my uh set with the Score Golf, And I just

675
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.880
was amazed how you based on the the form that

676
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.119
I filled out on site, Uh, how you knew which

677
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:04.880
degree losts that I needed and how well it's worked

678
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:05.160
for me.

679
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:06.400
I've made it work for me.

680
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.880
Well, there's a mathematical science to all this. And thank

681
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:12.240
you for the kudos about being a golf club designer,

682
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.920
but you know, I'm first and foremost for it. I'm

683
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.119
a golfer. You know, I want to hit it closer

684
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.799
to the whole, just like everybody else. And you know

685
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.000
what drove me to become a designer because I'm not

686
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:26.160
an engineer. I'm a golfer. And like mister Hogan was

687
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:29.599
not an engineer, he was a golfer, and his constant

688
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:31.559
pursuit of how to make the golf ball be more

689
00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:34.480
controllable led him to, you know, zero in on the

690
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.799
golf club because that's what you're controlling it with. And

691
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.039
you know, I think that when I have a golf

692
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.519
club in my hand and I have a hard time

693
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.640
flighting the ball down, well I know how to flight

694
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.400
the ball down. That must be the golf club, you know,

695
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.079
because I know how to do that, So why should

696
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:52.640
I be able to And kind of what drove the

697
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:56.599
whole development of score forty one sixty one is with

698
00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:00.160
my seven eight nine iron, I can very accurate lee

699
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:03.119
I've learned over the years, very accurately to change my

700
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:07.039
ball trajectory and distance to three and four yard increments

701
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.639
in between those clubs. But I never was able to

702
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:13.039
get there with the pitching wedge and the wedges, And

703
00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:15.599
it finally dawned on me, maybe it's not me, Maybe

704
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:19.320
it's the golf club. So when we put conventional wedges

705
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:23.360
on our environ and took impact in a one inch

706
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:25.599
circle around the face, and we found that the ball

707
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.000
traveled forty five to fifty feet different between the bottom

708
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:31.480
of that one inch circle and the top of that

709
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:34.159
one inch circle. Well, hey, an inch isn't very far.

710
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.480
And then we put these thin faced cavity back irons

711
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.840
on the iron environing, and we found that that difference

712
00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:43.760
distance differential went to seventy eighty ninety eight feet between

713
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:46.800
high and the face and low in the face with

714
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:49.480
the same swing from iron environment. That's the golf club.

715
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.599
We've isolated the golf club. It's not the golfer. Like say,

716
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:54.559
it's not your fault that you can't control your distance,

717
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.519
But Score Golf can fix that for you, and we

718
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.000
will make you as good as you are. How's that.

719
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.079
They'll make you feel more confident and that is huge

720
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:11.840
exactly that is huge. So the Ben Hogan I'm want

721
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:14.079
to get back to Ben Hogan company for a second.

722
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:19.400
In fort Worth, you've always been in. Victoria is in Texas.

723
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:21.320
Is closer to Houston, isn't it.

724
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.880
Victoria is down close to the coast, which is you know,

725
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.199
one of my loves beside golf is saltwater fishing, and

726
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.159
Victoria is close to the coast. But when we took

727
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:35.559
on the ben Hogan opportunity, there was no question in

728
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:38.079
my mind that Ben Hogan had to go back to

729
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:41.360
Fort Worth. That's where that company has always been. Just

730
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:43.400
like moving the packers out of Green Bay, It's just

731
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.440
not something you do, you know. And the ben Hogan

732
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:50.800
Company is rerooting in Fort Worth. By this time next year,

733
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.079
ben Hogan Irons will be earning a following all over

734
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:54.159
the golf marketplace.

735
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:55.599
I cannot wait.

736
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:57.320
It's going to be exciting.

737
00:35:57.559 --> 00:35:58.599
I cannot wait.

738
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:01.639
They'll be right there in fort Worth, Texas.

739
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.559
So how far is it between Victoria and Fort Worth?

740
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:07.159
Your driver or you fly.

741
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.679
I drive and get a lot of phone time in

742
00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:14.320
and so I have second residence. I'm sitting up in

743
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.480
fort Worth and obviously a bunch of my time up

744
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.719
there It's a wonderful city, by the way, and you

745
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.119
know nicknamed cap Pound is the beginning of the West

746
00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.480
and wonderful city. Really neat place.

747
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:31.000
Yeah, yeah, definitely. The best part of the Dallas Fort

748
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:32.840
Worth area is Fort Worth.

749
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:36.039
Yeah. West fort Worth is just a really neat place.

750
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.079
A lot of great golf there, just great people there,

751
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:41.159
some of the best little restaurants you've ever found in

752
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:43.039
your life. And it's a really cool place.

753
00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:48.760
Awesome, awesome, Well, congratulations again, Terry. Really happy for you

754
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:53.800
and eagerly anticipating what happens in twenty fifteen with Ben Hogan.

755
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:57.400
And when you guys are about to release something, I'm

756
00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:59.519
going to drag you back in here and let everybody

757
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:00.239
know once again.

758
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:03.559
So that would be great, rad We'll look forward to

759
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:07.280
that opportunity and to spending more time on the show.

760
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:09.719
Yeah, that would also be fun. It's always great to

761
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:15.320
talk to you, Terry. Congratulations, best of luck and thanks again.

762
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:17.599
Thank you, Fret. It's always a pleasure.