Aug. 29, 2025

More On The Golf Rules: Stroke Play with author RichardTodd

More On The Golf Rules: Stroke Play with author RichardTodd
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GS#429 March 25, 2014 In the last episode, we stumped Richard Todd on a few details of specific rules. In part 2 we get the correct explanation and discuss other rules that are broken regularly because we don’t know the exact USGA wording or ruling. 
Unlike the painfully dry legalese of the USGA's Rules of Golf, Richard's book takes you on a round with a typical foursome as they encounter...and break.. the rules. http://TheGolfRules.com
In addition to being a lifelong golfer, Richard’s also one of the original Golf Smarter listeners from 2005. 

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WEBVTT

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Golf Smarter number four hundred and twenty nine, published on

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April twenty five, twenty fourteen.

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Welcome to golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain

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insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the

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golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our

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interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations

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like this that are no longer available in any podcast app.

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If you're practicing, that's not a stroke. That's a swing

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because you don't have intent to hit the ball. So

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you know, quite often we're practicing a little too close

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and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.

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There is no penalty for.

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That, okay, So let me try to graphically explain this one.

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So your go to address the ball, you place your

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driver right down next to it, and it taps the

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ball and the ball falls off the tee.

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That is not a stroke.

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That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in

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your forest and all. That's one and you can turn

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around and say no, it's not right, okay.

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Good. On the opposite side, you can swing with the

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intent of putting it out there and it go two inches.

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That it would have that is a stroke and that

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is your ball played.

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More on the Golf Rules Stroke Play with Richard Todd.

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This is Golf Smarter. Welcome back to Golf Smarter, Richard.

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Thanks so much, Bred, it's great.

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To have you on again. I want to get right

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back into the conversation about your fun little book called

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the Golf Rules Stroke Play. Learn the rules of golf

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by watching others break them again, a fun little read.

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I was picking your brain. I'm so curious. You know,

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now that you have the book out, do you talk

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to people about rules or do you get a sense

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that people always follow the rules or that they admit

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they broke the rule? Do you get any sense of that?

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Yes? Actually, I was just at the Cleveland Golf Show.

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Twenty five thousand people came through, and most everybody I'm

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sure it's tongue in cheek, but it's a lot of

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smart alec comments saying, oh, we don't play by the rules,

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we don't need the rules, I don't like the rules,

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those kind of things. Although we know that at least

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to a great extent, everybody plays by the rules. You

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might have your personal ones that you like to bend

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a little as you were saying before. Inside the leather

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is good, but overall, selling the rule book was akin

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to setting up an alcoholics anonymous table at a bar.

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At least, that was my takeaway from everybody that came by.

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Loved the idea, but they were shy of admitting that

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they knew less than everything.

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So they don't admit that they're breaking the rules, but

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they also won't admit that they know the rules exactly. Wow. Well, uh,

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I'll fall in that kind of I know, I admit,

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I admit I know there are rules that I break

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because I just don't care. I think that they're absurd.

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I think that there's some of these rules are just

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ridiculous and I and it's it's part of my whole

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issue with the us GA and having a driver up there,

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you know up It just drives me crazy. Why to me,

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so many of these rules are to be And I

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know I'm gonna really upset a lot of people with this,

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but I get the sense that these rules are to

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be the advocate for the golf course, not the advocate

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for the golfer.

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I've heard you say.

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That before, and it never made sense to you then,

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And it doesn't make sense to you.

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I know, I understand what you're saying, but I have

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more of a perspective after dealing with the USGA and

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for the book and going through the rural school, and

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to make another metaphor, I feel like the USGA is

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a police officer. Nobody wants to see a police car

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in their rear view mirror with the lights on, but

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when somebody is trying to break into their house, they

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don't mind calling nine one one for some reason. That's

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just the way people feel. You know, if you're speeding,

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it's very simple. You know, here's the speed limit. If

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you break it, there's the potential for the penalty.

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So if you're a victim, that's one thing. If you're

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the perpetrator.

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Exactly, so you know, the question is that you are

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you're breaking the rule intentionally and you're trying to get

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away with something or is it an accident and you

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just need to talk your way out of the two

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stroke Banetley Okay.

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Fine, so let's let's let's pick into the book. I

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would love to go over some of the rules that

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seem to be common mistakes or common misinterpretations or just

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I didn't know that type of rules and so I'd

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love to do two things. One, I'm going to ask

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you a series of questions and see if we can

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get a ruling from our official, even though you're not

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the official, you wrote a book. And then also, if anybody,

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let's just do this. If anybody has any rules questions

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they're not sure of and would like clarification, send me

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an email. I'll get Richard on Skype and we'll do

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a little video of Richard explaining that rule to you.

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I mean, and if it works or not. So just

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go click on the Hey Fred button and send me

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your question and we'll get Richard to answer the question.

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So Richard here, let's start right at the tea box.

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Is there's rules there, you know, like are the rules

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where the your playing partners are allowed or not allowed

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to stand while you're teeing off?

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There are not rules, but that's an etiquette.

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Issue and that's in the next book.

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That is in the next book. You know. The tea box,

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of course, is an interesting thing. It is defined by

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the tea markers, which actually the tea box goes to

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the outside of the tea markers. So if you depending

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on if you have the little balls or blocks, it

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actually extends on the outside.

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Of that how far outside just to.

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The end of it, right to the outside outside edge, right,

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and it's two club blanks back. Granted that don't remember

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the USGA specifying which club. But you know, for some people,

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like there's an issue in the book where one of

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the players knows he it's his eight iron one hundred

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and thirty five yards and the tea markers at one

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hundred and thirty and so he backs up five yards. Well,

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that was outside of the actual defined tea box. And

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so that's something you can't do, okay, because if you're

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playing outside of the tea box, you effectively didn't tee

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off properly, then you can qualification.

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Right. Are you allowed to not use a T on

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the tea box, Yes, but you're not allowed to use

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a T anywhere else. But I'm just making I'm just

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asking here.

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I've heard that starters should do that. But yes, no,

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you cannot use a tee throughout the green or through

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the green as we were just talking about. Four that's

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the definition of the area between the tea box and

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the putting green through the green, okay.

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And when you say that, you can set up two

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club lengths generally, I would think that's people using their driver.

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Whenever there's a two club length thing, people pull out

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the longest club, which would be the driver. Right. Usually

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you can't use your you're not you're not allowed to

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use your ball retriever that has still a scopic ball retriever,

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right right, Okay, So.

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And the interesting thing with that is the ball has

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to be in the T box.

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Yeah, That's what I was going to ask, is like

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can the ball be well, it can't be right to

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the outside edge because you may hit it. But if

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you put the ball like right, say you're a right

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handed hitter and you go to the tea box when

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you're facing the fairway the T box, it's on the

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far left right, the left side, which is for a

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right handed here, so you put the you put the

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ball just inside that that marker, but you could stand.

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Is it legal to stand outside that?

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Yes?

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Okay, good, good to know you.

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You'd have to have a really strange fairway that you'd

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want to be able to do that, but yeah, it's

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an option.

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Well no, I mean it's like I know when like

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when I go bowling. Okay, And it's a weird analogy here,

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and you know you're from Ohio. You bowl, Oh yeah,

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it was not good. So anyway, so like you know,

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you got the seven to ten, you know the outside

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pins right, you got the ten pin over on the

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far right. Now, to me, it makes much more sense

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to start on the far left of the lane and

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give yourself the angle to go at it. Then try

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to just hug the ball straight down the right side

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and hope that it hits it right. So for me,

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the same thing. If my target line is to put

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the ball on the right side of the fairway to

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give me a better angle to approach the green, then

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I'm going to hit from the left side of the

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t box.

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It's something you could do.

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Yes, okay, that's not a rule thing. That's just how

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I approach it. It's like, yeah, I'll hit on the

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far side. I think, now you've listened, because I don't

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listen to my interviews when I'm doing them. I'm just

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like recording them so I hear. But I remember when

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I asked when I had the woman at TPC Scottsdale

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and I asked her if she noticed anything, and she

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she said to me, oh, yeah, you tea up on

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the right side of the tea box every time, and

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I'm like, I do. I don't think I do, And

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she said that I do.

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That is exactly what came into my mind when you

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gave your description.

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Is what she said. Yes, dude, you're not supposed to

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take notes on the on the shows. You're just supposed

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to listen. It's a podcast.

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It's a great podcast.

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Stop. Thank you.

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I appreciate that's very nice.

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Can you tell people in my family that it's like

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we're thet They're like, why do you still do that?

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Okay, let's go to the book.

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Yeah, you kidding, it's it's already in a frame and no,

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it's going to be though. I'm just so touched. Water hazards.

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Let's get back to because we talked about water hazards

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and you know, I kind of caught you off guard there.

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Let's go over the water. You've done a little research, now,

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what can you tell me?

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First, we're talking about We mentioned water hazards versus lateral

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water hazards before, and the lateral water hazard can actually

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be part of a water hazard, but the lateral part

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is positioned so that you can't play behind it. You're

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outside of the you can't drop a ball behind the

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water hazard and still be in the playing area. That

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goes back to what we were saying. Okay, so there's

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four things you can do when you're in a water hazard.

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First one is play it as it lies. And this

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is one of those things you got to think about

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for a second because most people like, well, my ball's

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in the water, how can I play it? Well, your

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ball doesn't have to be in the water to be

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in a water hazard. You know, if you see those

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those red lines or the red steaks, you're you could

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technically be in the water hazard but still have a

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nice dry approach way.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Oh caught you with that one. Huh.

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00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:16.360
Well, no, it's like, say, say that the golf course,

223
00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:20.519
you know, the water begins and there's crocodiles, you know,

224
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:24.000
the waters there, and the ball is like three or

225
00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.440
four inches before it gets into the water, and yet

226
00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:32.799
there's a red line that's been spray painted onto the

227
00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.879
grass about two feet away from the water. Now that

228
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.200
red line is ob is it not?

229
00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.120
Now that's well the water that's a water hazard.

230
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:48.679
Okay, that says it's the water red lines. So even

231
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.320
though it's inside the red line, but not in the water.

232
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:57.840
You can still hit from there without penalty. Yes, oh okay.

233
00:12:58.120 --> 00:13:01.559
So you can hink you and as we're saying, you

234
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:03.559
can go back to the tee or not necessarily a

235
00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:05.200
tea box, but you can go back to where your

236
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.799
last shot was, which may not be in the tea box.

237
00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:09.440
You could have been like a Part five, you could

238
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.519
have put it in the water from your second, third,

239
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.919
or eighth shot. So there's number two three is we're

240
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:22.799
talking about dropping a ball online from the tee or

241
00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.519
not the t the flag stick behind the water hazard,

242
00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:31.200
and you can go as far back as you want, but.

243
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.159
You have to stay online from where you pull the

244
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.000
ball out the line, not the line your ball flight was,

245
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:39.519
but the line to the flag.

246
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.320
Yeah, where it crossed the water hazard to the flag.

247
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:49.320
And there are options where you were saying about dropping

248
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.519
within two club links, not near the hole. Now, an

249
00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:59.600
interesting part on that one is we know closer to

250
00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:02.639
the hole, we can see that, but that line goes

251
00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:06.879
left and right, so you literally could possibly drop on

252
00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:09.879
the other side of the water being the same distance

253
00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:17.080
from the hole. It's an interesting one. The rule book

254
00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:18.960
does have a nice little diagram for that, and I'm

255
00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:23.039
sure the USG website also discusses that or has that

256
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:27.799
same graphic. But again, this just goes to show you

257
00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:33.320
why it's so difficult to play by the rules. Yeah,

258
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.120
as opposed to just take it back and hit another one,

259
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:39.679
as you were saying before, you could hit a provisional,

260
00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:43.200
but there are other options.

261
00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:52.480
Yeah. Then I'm still not clear on when you're allowed

262
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:58.840
to just move the ball, the difference between taking the

263
00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:01.480
ball all the way back to where you originally hit

264
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:04.480
or just saying, you know, out it's over here, but

265
00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.240
I'm moving it so it's in play here and hitting

266
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.080
it here and taking hitting three versus going back to

267
00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:12.919
the T box hitting three. Is there an instance where

268
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:15.399
I'm allowed to hit it from where it is out

269
00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:19.279
of bounds and just move it laterally and then take

270
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.080
my third shot from there? Is that legal?

271
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:28.480
Every I'm trying to say yes, but I'm having a

272
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:30.399
tough time remembering the exact situation.

273
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.159
Yeah. Yeah, We're gonna have to do a little more

274
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:34.039
research on that one.

275
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.519
But yeah, that goes back to your question you ask

276
00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.000
me a little earlier. Do people come up and ask

277
00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:42.279
me rule questions? And that happened a lot at the

278
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:48.519
golf show. And I'm an author. I'm not a rules

279
00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:52.919
official for the USGA, so I will from time to

280
00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:57.279
time just like everybody else. Forget how that rule goes.

281
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:03.360
Dude, you're a compliance guy.

282
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.000
It doesn't mean we're always right. That's our goal.

283
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:10.360
Well that you know. I don't believe the rules are

284
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:16.240
always right, but I have to play by them. He's

285
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:20.360
not comment on that. No, Okay, are you? Are we

286
00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:22.759
there more water hazard things that we should know?

287
00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:27.480
Yes, but you know that's more than enough for today.

288
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.559
All right, so much to have fun with?

289
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:38.240
Yeah, right, right, right right? Let's see what about testing hazards?

290
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.080
What is the ruling on that? What does that mean?

291
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.799
Like you know with bunkers? I remember that? Is that

292
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:47.960
a us open Like if it's if.

293
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.559
You know, are you talking about Let's see what was

294
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:51.360
that Johnson?

295
00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:53.720
Was that Dustin Johnson?

296
00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:54.919
Justin Johnson?

297
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:56.639
If it's it's a hazard?

298
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:56.879
Right?

299
00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.960
And he was like that he got penalized and laws

300
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:01.360
It was like terrible.

301
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:03.720
You know, it's funny. Is I actually struck up a

302
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.400
conversation with one of the presenters at last year's Real

303
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.920
School about that, and he was laughing because he was

304
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:16.319
there and he was telling me how every caddy and

305
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.920
player was told over and over and again, you know

306
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.519
they were they were shown where all the bunkers are at.

307
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.599
And even as I guess as Dustin was going up there,

308
00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:29.119
his caddy was told, that's a that's a bunker hazard.

309
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:33.000
So what we see on TV doesn't always actually happen

310
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.279
is the way we think it does. Uh, and sometimes

311
00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:40.079
they just don't pay attention. So uh, but yes, to

312
00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:43.240
answer your question, you can. You can dig your feet in.

313
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.759
You can, I think the rules call that getting a

314
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:53.559
firm stance. Uh. You cannot take a practice stroke that

315
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.960
means hitting the sand, but you can take a practice

316
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.759
swing into the air. Again, that goes back to your

317
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:05.000
h the legal descriptions of swing versus stroke.

318
00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.799
Like my ball versus the A ball.

319
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:14.160
Right right, So as long as you don't swing into

320
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.400
the sand, you're okay in those in those situations.

321
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:27.079
Okay, okay. So then testing hazards no, no, correct, cannot

322
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:34.519
have your club touch the hazard while practicing correct, Okay,

323
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.599
don't do it. Don't do that, but they have to

324
00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.599
be designated. Now, obviously that was tournament play and there

325
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.599
was you know, like that hazard that he got penalized

326
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:49.240
for it was like the size of a size seven shoe, right,

327
00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:50.240
and I.

328
00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.200
Believe there were a spectator standing in it too, Yeah, exactly.

329
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.880
It makes it even more difficult to.

330
00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:02.400
Oh that was so painful. Yeah, that was so painful. Okay,

331
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:06.519
So you really, if you're just playing, you should know

332
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.160
your course. But I mean they're probably.

333
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:16.759
No, there are, Yes, that's always an interesting question to

334
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.559
ask before you t off, you know, at the starter

335
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:24.039
and what is defined as the hazards on the courses,

336
00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:28.559
and you know they'll always give you recommendations and suggestions

337
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:30.759
and things to watch out for because you know they

338
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:32.200
know the course and they want you to have a

339
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:32.720
good time.

340
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.359
Yes, sure they do, all right, Well, they want you

341
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.279
to come back, that's what they want. You care if

342
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:41.640
you enjoy yourself or not. They want you to shoot

343
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.200
on hundred and thirty. So then then I guess that

344
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:49.400
would bring up the conversation about debris or what are

345
00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.079
they called obstacles or impediments.

346
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.599
Loose or faced impediments and.

347
00:19:59.359 --> 00:19:59.759
Fixed.

348
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:05.160
Yes, I'm sorry, I'm losing my thought process again.

349
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.519
And I understand that. I apologize. You know, we're three

350
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:11.240
hours difference on time zone, and I'm just throughout. You know,

351
00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.240
I'm getting it's getting late in your day, and I

352
00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:14.400
apologize you get a pot.

353
00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:20.200
You had made a comment earlier about the being on

354
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:24.000
the tee box and knocking the ball off the tee.

355
00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:25.559
Yeah, there's gonna go.

356
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.960
That kind of goes with being in the bunker. Is

357
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.559
it a stroke or is it a swing? If you're

358
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:40.640
practice practicing, that's uh, not a not a stroke. That's

359
00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.319
a swing because you don't have intent to hit the ball.

360
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:47.519
So you know, quite often we're practicing a little too

361
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.279
close and we knock it off. That is not a stroke.

362
00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:53.599
There is no penalty for that, okay.

363
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.079
So like so let me let me try to graphically

364
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.720
explain this one. So your tea, you're you've teed up

365
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:01.079
the ball, you're about to do it. You go to

366
00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.319
address the ball, you place your driver right down next

367
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:06.759
to it, and it taps the ball and the ball

368
00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:07.920
falls off the tee.

369
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.240
That is that is not a stroke.

370
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:13.799
That is not a stroke. Because you'll have guys in

371
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.599
your forest and all going that's one you're and you

372
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.160
can turn around and say no, it's not right, okay, good.

373
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:25.440
Now on the opposite side, you can swing with the

374
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.920
intent of putting it out there two seventy five and

375
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:33.079
it go that two inches that it would have. That

376
00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.640
is a stroke and that is your ball played. And

377
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.960
some people think, well, okay, I went three inches, let

378
00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.279
me just pull it back, put it back on the tee. Well,

379
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.400
effectively you've gone back to what we just talked about,

380
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:51.720
that stroke and distance, and.

381
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:51.920
And then you you do not get to tee it

382
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.880
up again right at that point? Well, no, the balls

383
00:21:57.000 --> 00:21:58.400
you play it where it lies. If you only had

384
00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.599
three inches, you got to hit it there, right, okay, okay,

385
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:08.000
And and but what about uh say you take a

386
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.759
practice swing. No, you take you address the ball. You

387
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:14.640
take your swing and miss the ball completely. It has happened.

388
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.599
It has happened. And that is a stroke because you

389
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.920
had the intent of hitting it.

390
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:24.960
So if you swing and miss completely and this was

391
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:27.359
your swing, but you're missing and the ball is still

392
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.200
sitting exactly where it was when you started, that counts

393
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:31.799
as a stroke.

394
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:33.160
That strike one.

395
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:41.960
Yes, oh wow, No I don't do that. I do that. No, never,

396
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:45.400
never do that. No, but I've seen I've seen it

397
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.960
happen because I don't I play with anybody. It's like, oh,

398
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.200
you've never played golf. Come on, let's go on. This

399
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.400
will be fun. But so that actually counts as a stroke.

400
00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:57.440
That would be defeating if you were that happened to

401
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.160
you and you weren't very good players, Like, well, I

402
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:00.720
don't want to play. That's going to count.

403
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.200
At least there's no penalty because you don't have to,

404
00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:05.400
you know, bring the ball back. You're still in a

405
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:06.200
good lie.

406
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:07.920
What do you mean there's no penalty. I didn't hit

407
00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.920
it and it counts, well, there's no penalty. But you're right.

408
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.000
I like that you actually said strike one that you

409
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:22.680
know that counts as a swing. Say you hit your

410
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:27.640
ball and it goes into the woods, and I hope

411
00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:30.720
I'm okay with this. It goes into the woods and

412
00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:36.640
the ball lands under some stuff that has fallen from

413
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.480
the tree, you know, and then there's a branch here

414
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:42.160
and there, and there's some leaves and the balls under there.

415
00:23:42.279 --> 00:23:45.799
And what am I allowed to do to make it

416
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.960
so I can get a clean shot at the ball?

417
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.839
No, we've we saw again. Not to bring up the tour.

418
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.279
There was an interesting one not too long ago. I

419
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.839
think it was down a Hilton head where it was

420
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:04.799
live thick brush and in the backswing. If you clear

421
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:09.480
out some of that brush, that is a penalty, even

422
00:24:09.480 --> 00:24:11.839
though I don't know how you could not do it.

423
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:16.720
Wait live but live brush, yes.

424
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:21.559
Some tall weeds. Okay, And I think there's been other

425
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.640
people that have called a penalty on themselves or something

426
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:29.440
which somebody watching from TV at home. But you've got

427
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.480
to be very careful about changing the lie.

428
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:38.839
So am I allowed to if it's if it goes

429
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:41.559
into the fescue and there's all this tall grass around

430
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.319
it and I can get to it. But if I

431
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:46.920
hit it, it's just going to get caught up in

432
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.480
this tall stuff. So I can't pat down the grass

433
00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:52.279
in front of it on the direction my SHOT's going,

434
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:53.880
I can't correct.

435
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.319
You can't go in there and clear out your path.

436
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.920
H Okay, And no, I don't know how you'd really,

437
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.759
I guess just smack away and try.

438
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:05.680
To Can you say you know? But you can say listen,

439
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:08.359
I know that if I try to hit this, it's

440
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.240
not going anywhere. I'm going to take five or six strokes.

441
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.119
I'm stuck in this. Can you just can you say

442
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:15.880
I'm going to take a drop, I'm going to move

443
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.880
the ball and take a drop over there, you.

444
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:26.480
Can play it as a drawing a blank on the

445
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:28.839
terminology shown unplayable.

446
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:30.119
Lie, unplayable Ie, Okay.

447
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:34.039
I'm trying to think though, where your drop zone is

448
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.880
at very if I'm sure it's going to be close

449
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.519
to where the ball's at. So if you're if you're

450
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.000
surrounded by fifteen feet of this stuff, I don't think

451
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.640
you're going to get out easily.

452
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.640
Right, But there's a penalty involved with that. I mean

453
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:51.240
you can.

454
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.200
Exactly right, yes, And that kind of goes back with

455
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.200
the rule you're not trying to get out of trouble

456
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.279
because you know I played the course as it lies.

457
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:04.599
No, I'm just trying to get closer.

458
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.279
You're trying to well, right, but you're trying to get

459
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:12.759
relief from something that is not normal, like on a

460
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:18.960
cart path. And that's probably one area that most people

461
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.519
don't understand. You can be on a cart path and

462
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.680
most everybody will drop to the fairway side of the

463
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.960
cart path. Well, that may not be your quote quote

464
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:34.480
closest point of relief. It depends if you're a right

465
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:37.119
hand or a left hander. You know, you you literally

466
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.279
have to almost measure where that ball's at and how

467
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:43.359
far you have to move it so that you can

468
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.640
take a stance to play the ball. And it may

469
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.640
be to the inside, it may be into the rough.

470
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.440
And I've even seen where your closest point of relief

471
00:26:54.480 --> 00:27:00.799
could be right behind a tree. Now you're not taking relief.

472
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.400
You're not trying to better your next shot. You're just

473
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.160
taking relief from the car path. That doesn't mean that

474
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.799
you're going to have a great next shot, but it

475
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:12.759
means you're not going to hit on the carpath right.

476
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:15.680
And if you do land on the card path and

477
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:20.000
you take relief from that, is there a penalty. No,

478
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:22.680
So you should not hit from the card.

479
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:30.119
Path unless you have no good relief. I mean you

480
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.440
can get relief from the car path, but that could

481
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:39.599
put you into a more troublesome position. You could have

482
00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:44.960
roots on one side tree, maybe the dirts all tore up.

483
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:50.480
Do you remember, now this is funny. Do you remember

484
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.079
the interviews that I did with the caddies at Pebble

485
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:57.000
Beach a couple of years ago, number of years.

486
00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:59.400
Ago about using some other guy's club.

487
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.440
Yes, I love that story. I love the guys, The

488
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:06.119
guys like they were playing you know, I gotta play

489
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.680
it real, liies gotta play it real lies. And the

490
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.359
guy's like, he landed on the card path and it

491
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.839
was like like it was asphalt. It wasn't just a cement.

492
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.720
It was asphalt, right, So there's rocks in it and

493
00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:19.279
pebbles and it's rough. And the guy was like, oh,

494
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:20.880
I'm going to just take relief here, and his playing

495
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.960
partner said, no, got to play it where it lies. Now.

496
00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:24.880
Was he wrong?

497
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.680
Well, yes, that's not the rules. The rule says you

498
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.039
could you can take free relief from there. Those two

499
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:38.000
were they Well, again, they broke the rules before they

500
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.680
even started because they decided that they were going to

501
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:46.160
play everything down and that was contrary to taking your

502
00:28:46.440 --> 00:28:50.400
a loud relief mm and so yes. And then the

503
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:52.599
golfer that was hitting asked if he could take a

504
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:55.720
practice wing, and the golfer said sure, right, took several

505
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:56.680
practice wings.

506
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.599
And he took several practice wings and and he's like,

507
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.319
you know, he's making sure. Then there's sparks flying from

508
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.039
the club and you know it's just he's just destroying

509
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.640
the golf club. I loved this story. And finally he

510
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.039
takes the shot and sticks it, puts it right next

511
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:16.880
to the pin and his playing partner said, wow, that

512
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:19.200
was a great shot. Which club did you use? And

513
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:24.359
he said your six iron? I thought that was funny,

514
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:26.880
now it was it was, But now wait a minute,

515
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.839
using your partner's six iron is illegal? Correct?

516
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:38.839
Okay? You can share clubs as long as the total

517
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.079
number of clubs don't exceed fourteen.

518
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:45.359
Whoa total number of clubs that you use and around

519
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.079
or because you may be carrying fourteen, but you're not

520
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.680
going to hit your seven iron at all today, you can't.

521
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.559
It's in your bag, You're going to use it. Okay,

522
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:55.880
it's available to you.

523
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:57.960
Right, So if you're only carrying.

524
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:00.359
I never thought about that one. He probably he's got

525
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.319
a penalty for having too many clubs, right.

526
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.240
So that you can carry thirteen clubs and say to

527
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:09.759
your buddy, I didn't bring my hybrid today. Can I

528
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:12.400
borrow yours? And as long as you've got thirteen clubs

529
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.839
in your bag, that's okay.

530
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:17.839
Well, it's okay one way. I'm trying to think of

531
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:23.079
the other golfer because now he's shared a club. I'm

532
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:25.599
not sure how that falls. I think he might be Okay,

533
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:29.319
it gets a little tricky there. Oh, sure, the penalty can.

534
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:31.799
Go, where's the lawyers when we need them exactly?

535
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:37.759
Another point about the rules that we're getting into is

536
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:43.279
it's not always about penalizing yourself. It's about the opportunities

537
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:46.440
that you missed, like dropping it off the cart path

538
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.880
or taking it out of the embedded life so you

539
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:50.559
don't take four strokes to move it a foot and

540
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:55.240
a half. So the rules are there just to try

541
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:59.200
to make the game more enjoyable, or at least even.

542
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.559
That's making the game more enjoyable is being able to

543
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:10.359
tee it up every time? What about cleaning the ball?

544
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.599
You know sometimes you'll get when where there's win. There

545
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:19.359
are when people say winter rules, Is that an official designation?

546
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:20.279
Do you know?

547
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.599
It is an official designation. It's called preferred lies in

548
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:31.039
the book, and it's there for the care of the course. Okay,

549
00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:35.519
that hole or maybe the entire grasp because of the

550
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.720
weather conditions. They don't want you taking big chunks of

551
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:43.160
sod out so you can move the ball slightly so

552
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:45.480
that you have a better lie, so that you don't

553
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:46.880
do as much damage to the course.

554
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:48.680
Sure, but what if you've got a big chunk of

555
00:31:48.720 --> 00:31:49.480
mud on your ball?

556
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.279
There are times that you can clean the ball, but

557
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.559
just I'm not sure how the preferred lies rolls in

558
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.920
with cleaning your ball. I don't think that that's an

559
00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:08.200
option there. Wow, of course you can clean it on

560
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:08.880
the putting green.

561
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:10.480
On the putting green, yes, and.

562
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:16.200
After your market, before you tee off, you can clean

563
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:21.200
your ball slightly for identification purposes. You know, you might

564
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:23.559
have a big clump of dirt, but that dirt might

565
00:32:23.599 --> 00:32:27.240
be right over your marking and you need to be

566
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:31.640
able to identify. So there are opportunities where you can

567
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.559
touch up the ball a little bit. Playing an unplayable

568
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:38.640
live believe that's an option too, where you can clean

569
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.599
your ball before you redrop. So, m okay, a lot

570
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:44.680
of fun stuff.

571
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:46.359
A lot of fun stuff. Let's see, I'm gonna throw

572
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.279
one more at you. Let's see if you can come

573
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:53.720
up with your ball. You've just hit your ball from

574
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.480
the fairway. You're now on the green, and your playing

575
00:32:57.519 --> 00:33:01.440
partner hits up and comes up short of the green.

576
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:05.400
He's just on the fringe. And then he goes to

577
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:07.839
take his next shot from the fringe, and in the

578
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:11.240
process of hitting it from the fringe, he hits your ball.

579
00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.839
Is that a penalty or is that okay, because you

580
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:18.680
haven't gotten up to mark your ball yet. I mean,

581
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:20.559
you know, obviously you're going to go mark your ball

582
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:24.400
what you're allowed to do, right and pick it up. Okay,

583
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:30.440
But if he hits it from off the green, no

584
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.359
matter what club he's using. And this is one thing

585
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:34.799
that cracks me up all the time. People say, oh,

586
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:38.400
I had three putts there. It's like, no, you had

587
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.559
three strokes with your putter, but you only had two

588
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:45.039
official putts. Correct. Just because you're using your putter doesn't

589
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.480
mean it counts as a putt because people putt from

590
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:52.119
off the green all the time, right, okay, so excuse me.

591
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.519
So then now, guys, he's using his putter, he's on

592
00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:59.519
the fringe and he hits it and it hits your ball.

593
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:05.200
Is that a penalty? And if it is, well, whose

594
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:08.920
ball gets moved? Or do they both? How does that work?

595
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.840
All? Right? Hopefully I get this right. There is no penalty.

596
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:18.000
The ball that was there first sitting will be replaced

597
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:22.599
for no penalty. The player that was just hitting that

598
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.239
knocked the ball. I believe that's a rub of the

599
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:28.599
green and his ball stays where it bounced off.

600
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:31.679
So one gets moved The ball that's originally there gets

601
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:33.079
moved back to where it was, and the other one

602
00:34:33.079 --> 00:34:37.119
wherever it ricocheted onto that stays where it is, right, Okay,

603
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:42.239
Now he hits that shot and it trickles from the fringe.

604
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.719
He hits his approach shot, it trickles just over the

605
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:48.039
fringe and makes it onto the first two inches of

606
00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:51.039
the green. Now he's actually putting on the green, and

607
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:55.599
you still haven't moved your ball because you're on the

608
00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:58.039
opposite of the green, and for whatever reason, and he

609
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.559
puts it and it hits you your ball. Is that

610
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:03.880
a penalty?

611
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:04.320
Yes?

612
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:06.599
How much of a penalty?

613
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:12.639
Two strokes? Most everything is two strokes for match or

614
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:17.239
for stroke play. Match play is usually the loss of whole.

615
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:25.719
Okay, okay, So two strokes meaning I'm hitting my third shot.

616
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:30.199
Let's see, I'm hitting you hit hitting my third shot.

617
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.880
I hit his ball for my my third shot. Ye,

618
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.679
and now I'm a two penalty strokes. So now my

619
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.840
next stroke four or five, I'm now hitting six, right

620
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:44.039
or I'm hitting five.

621
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:49.800
You're hitting six because you hit three, you four and

622
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.519
five is your penalty, and then your next shot will

623
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:53.760
be stroke will be six.

624
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.960
Okay, But on the on the out of bounds situations,

625
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.599
you're you hit it in, you pull it out, that's penalty.

626
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:01.920
You get one stroke penalty.

627
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:08.039
Well you're hitting the first it counts and then your

628
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:09.440
penalty stroke coming back.

629
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:11.400
And so you when you're hitting a and you're hitting

630
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:17.760
three not four, that's okay, right dude, I am. I

631
00:36:18.599 --> 00:36:20.800
know you got to be exhausted for me grinding you

632
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:25.880
like this. I'm I'm I'm tapped out, but I really

633
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:29.159
enjoy your time. And again, I can't thank you enough

634
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:31.800
for your long term support of the podcast and your

635
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.800
very kind words. And I'm still don't get why you

636
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:39.239
would dedicate your book, but now that you've done it,

637
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:40.960
you've got to dedicate all three of them to me,

638
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:48.960
So screw you, buddy, And again, thanks so much. And

639
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.760
I really want to advise anyone who's interested in getting

640
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:55.840
more about learning the rules so you can repeat them

641
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:58.639
to your friends. Forget the Rules of Golf written by

642
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:04.159
the USGA is it's little, but it's little pages because

643
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:05.599
they want you to put it in your back pocket,

644
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.559
but it's over two hundred pages long. No the golf

645
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.079
role stroke play. Learn the rules of golf by watching

646
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:14.320
others break them, which actually is kind of fun because

647
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:17.079
you get yourself into situations going I've been there, I

648
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:19.960
know that, and you start getting to know the people

649
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:21.519
that are in the book. It's a lot of fun.

650
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:22.960
Pick that up.

651
00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:26.199
It's in the Golfer's mart The Golf Rules by Richard Todd. Richard,

652
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:32.960
thanks again, man, thank you, I appreciate it.