Nov. 4, 2025

Caddie at Merion Golf Club Writes “The Phillie Phenoms” A Fun Novel for All Ages with author Nate Oxman

Caddie at Merion Golf Club Writes “The Phillie Phenoms” A Fun Novel for All Ages with author Nate Oxman
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Season 20

GS#1024 This week Nate Oxman shares his unique experiences caddying on the LPGA Tour, and looping for celebrities like Troy Aikman and Darius Rucker at Merion Golf Club in Philadelphia. He recounts a memorable encounter with Rucker, where he was offered tickets to a show and a humorous deal regarding naming his unborn child. In addition to discussing his first book “Phillie Phenoms”, a great golf story directed at teens, but good for any age, our discussion highlights the personal connections and stories that arise from such unique experiences.

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WEBVTT

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What up few sticks. My name is Brodi McPherson.

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I'm from Nova Scotia, Canada and I play out a

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Kabact Brett.

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Welcome to Golf Smarter Boys.

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Hi, I'm Thad Thomas from Cottage Grove, Minnesota and I

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play at River Oaks Golf Course.

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Welcome to Golf Smarter.

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Episode one twenty four.

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When I was writing, the publisher that I worked for

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owned a little golf magazine in Philadelphia, and I was

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the staff writer for that magazine and I interviewed Barbara

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Tello once. It was really cool. It was me another

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writer in him for like an hour, just firing questions

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at him. He said, if you went to the range

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at a tour event and you took away the name plates,

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so you didn't know who anybody was, and you just

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went up and down and watched each person swing the

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golf club, except for like Jim Furick or Tiger or

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somebody like that, you knew what their swing was like.

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You wouldn't know if they were the fifth best player

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in the world or the five hundred and fifth best

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player in the world because they hit the ball so

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well and so something had to separate them. And it's

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the mental game. Can you do it when it matters most?

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Can you manage your waywhere on the golf course? Can

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you swallow your pride a play for four rather than

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going for a pin tuck behind a bunker or over

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the water hazard. So he'd said, you can't recognize the

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fifth best player from the five hundred and fifth best

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player in the world. So something has to separate them,

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and that's what it is. But mental game for sure.

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Oh Caddie at Marion Golf Club wrote a fun golf

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novel for all ages called The Philly Phenom by Nate Osman.

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This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower your score and

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raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome

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to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Nate.

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Thanks Fred, appreciate you having me here.

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Well, I'll be completely honest with you. When your publicity

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people reached out to me about your book, I'm like, really,

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I don't know about this book. It's like they said,

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just can you just read it and let us know.

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I couldn't put it down.

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Oh, thanks so much.

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Well, let's just say this I read when I go

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to sleep. So I fall asleep reading. So I put

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it down all the time. But I couldn't let me

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say it this way. I couldn't put it down till

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I finished. I had to get to the ending of

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this story to see how it turned out.

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That's awesome, that's what I want to hear.

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Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I had a lot of

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fun with this book.

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Thanks. That's the whole goal.

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You know, it's geared towards you know, younger kids, you know,

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ten to fifteen, but I was really hoping that adults

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would enjoy you two and would help spread the word

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for me, you know, for their children or their grandchildren

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or kids at their country club or whatever. So thanks

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so much for your kind words. And I'm glad to

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see that I'm doing something right.

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Well, I am a ten to fifteen year old, so

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it falls right in line. At least I act like

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it most of the time. But it's a unique story.

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And we'll get into the story because there's a lot

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of things in it that were golf lessons. That's why

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I was so intrigued about having this conversation with you.

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You really sneak in some great golf instruction on this

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But give me the background story of what this book

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is about, or give us an overview of what the

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book is about.

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Sure, it's a middle grade sports fiction novel, you know,

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focused on golf. The main character is a ten year

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old boy named Lima Lomax, who's based on me. You know,

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a lot of the stories in that book are based

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on my childhood growing up at this really blue collar

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country club in Philadelphia that really shouldn't have been called

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a country club. No pool, no tennis, nothing, just golf.

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But I guess they wanted a sound.

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So it was a private golf club.

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It was a private golf club, but they called it.

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It was called Edgemont Country Club. And in you know,

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a crazy golf rich as far as private golf goes

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there in Philadelphia, this place was at the bottom. And

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I don't think the members, you know, it's no longer there,

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but I don't think the members would disagree with me

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on that. And my my dad was a member there.

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He worked across the street at this safety equipment company,

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you know, and I tell people all the time, there's

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no no coincidence that he picked a golf club right

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across from his work, so he played there when he

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was younger, and then you know, when I got old

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enough to play, you know, he would bring me with him,

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and I just fell in love with the place. It

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was a place with you know, where plumbers and electricians

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would tee it up, with doctors and lawyers and all

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sorts of people, you know, Philly sports athletes. So I

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kind of gathered all these stories from my childhood just

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observing all these people you know, on the on the

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golf course, on the practice range, in the bar, and

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I filed them away, and then you know that kind

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of built into this book. And I first started writing

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it maybe ten years ag go when my kids were

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little and I was you know, up late at night

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feeding them bottles, and you know, I couldn't sleep after that,

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so I would just like kind of hammer away a

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few pages at a time. And then I read a

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book by John Strgy called When War Played Through about

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how you know, the major stopped and because so many

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of the professional golfers you know, enlisted, and you know,

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they had these Red Cross exhibition matches staged around the

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country to raise money for the war effort. You know,

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local PGA pros or local amateurs would play against these

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touring professionals, and I thought it'd be cool to kind

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of bring that to modern times and weave nine to

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eleven into that. So the main character Lee experience is

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nine to eleven when he's home from school one day,

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and I kind of tie that in, bring in that

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Red Cross exhibition match into this country club, and you know,

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Lee's goal throughout most of the stories to get his

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dad to be able to be one of the participants

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in that match.

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I figured as much that this was something from your

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childlihood the way this book was reading. But I'm curious

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about when you said your dad worked across the street

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from the golf club. Well, this is a chicken and

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egg story. Yeah what came first? Did the country club

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come first or his job come first? And he was like, oh,

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there's a golf course across the street.

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Yeah, I probably didn't say that right the first time.

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So I guarantee he picked that job because the office

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was right across the street from a golf club. And then,

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like you, he later went into business for himself. So

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he runs his own business and he makes his own

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hours and has played golf, you know, two or three

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times a week since I was a little kid. I'm

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forty four, So for thirty years he's been playing golf

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two or three times a week. He and my uncle

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caddied on the PGA Tour before I was born in

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the seventies, so there was no choice. You know, I

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was going to be a golfer whether I liked it

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or not. And you know, I'm happy that he put

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a club in my hands when I was like eight

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years old, and it's been a great love affair with

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golf ever since.

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Uh. Yeah, we use the word love of fair but

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we know better, Na, we really do. Your history is

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but you know you started playing at a your dad

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was a caddy, your uncle was a caddy, and then

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did you start caddying as well before you you know,

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got married, had kids, started your professional career or how

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did that work?

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Yeah? I did, So we were lucky.

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Again, there's so many private clubs here in Philadelphia, and

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you know we have Marion Golf Club, you know, top

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ten club in the country, top fifteen club in the world,

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you know, literally right in our backyard. So when I

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was I was born in the town where Marion is,

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and then you know, when we were in second grade,

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we moved to a town an adjacent town, but it's

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still only a mile and a half from the club.

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And then when I was fourteen years old, I don't

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remember my dad, you know, asking me if I wanted

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a caddy. He just took me in his van one

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day and dropped me off and said, go up there

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and ask the caddy master if you can caddy. And

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I was crazy shy when I was a kid, you know.

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He used to take me to PGA Tour events in

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the area, and the Champions Tour, I remember, was in

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the same cut a neck in the woods, and you

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know Jack Nicholas and Palmer and Chiechi Rodriguez and Lee

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Trevine was when they were like big time on the

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Senior Tour before the Champions Tour, and I would be

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deathly afraid to ask for their autograph, so he would

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have to do it. But for some reason I was

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okay with going and asking for this job. I don't

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know if just something inside me, you know, the caddy

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in me was already there, right, And so I started

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when I was fourteen, and I caddied all through high

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school and college, and then when I was I studied

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journalism at Penn State. And when I was looking for

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a full time gig. I was still caddying, and then

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you know, I found that full time writing position. I

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took a couple of years off, and then I went

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back to school to get certified to teach. And when

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I did that, I went back to Maryon. So I

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pretty much have been there since nineteen ninety five, with

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the exception of two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight,

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those two years I took off. You know, so thirty

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years roughly of carrying golf bags. A pretty great place

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to do it at Marion.

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At Marion, Wow, you got to give me a story

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about looping at Marion.

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I tell a couple of quick ones a lot. So

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I maybe fifteen years ago I caddy for Patty Harrington.

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He was like, you know, making an appearance for some

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company at charity outing on a Monday, and it was

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my job to drive him around in a golf cart

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and you know, play a hole with each group. And

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he got to number eleven, which is, you know, a

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famous hole in golfer. Bobby Jones clinched the Grand Slam

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in nineteen thirty and he stood on the tee and

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he was just going to hit like a probably like

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a five or six iron down the fairway because there's

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a creek that wraps around and cuts off the end

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of the hole, makes you force carry into the green.

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And and then he went back and got his driver,

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and he took like five steps behind the back of

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the tee and I didn't know what he was doing.

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And then he started running toward the ball and he

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did the happy Gilmore and hit it over the green

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like so it was at least a three hundred and

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forty yard carry and it probably ended up, you know,

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traveling three hundred and sixty yards or so.

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So that's one of my favorite stories.

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That's a great one. I mean, you must have been

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just completely bamboozled by the fact that he's standing, that

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he starts running at the ball.

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Yeah, I didn't know what he was gonna do. He

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didn't announce it, he didn't say like watch this or anything.

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He just kind of did it. And I think the

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other guys who were playing were just like, oh my god.

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But it's pretty cool, you know. You see so many

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celebrities come through there. I've been lucky enough to caddy

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for you know, Troy Aikman and Darius Rucker. So I'll

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tell Darius Rucker story. So I caddied for him. Maybe

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let's see, my oldest daughter is just turned thirteen, So

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it was when my wife was pregnant with her and

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I caddied for him, and then he gave us tickets

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to his show and we got to go backstage afterwards,

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and you know, they were about to go to the

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after party, and she was like, you guys are gonna

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come right and I just like pointed to my wife's belly.

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I'm like, now we got to get home. And he's like, well,

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I'll make a deal with you. If you name your

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baby after me, I'll pay for her to go to college.

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He was like, you can call her Darisa or something.

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And we didn't end up doing it. But I caddied

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for him like five years ago and I brought up

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that story.

242
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:35.519
He was like, yeah, he's like sounds like something I

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would say.

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00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:40.159
You didn't take him up, or you could have told

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him you couldn't give him the kid the middle name.

246
00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:45.399
I know that's what people say they should have, like

247
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just make it the middle name.

248
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He would have been cool with it.

249
00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:53.000
He was fun to caddy for super competitive, you know,

250
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.360
very focused, but he was fun. Oscar Robertson I Caddy

251
00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.399
for which was pretty cool. I'm a huge basketball fan.

252
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My dad was a big basketball player and golfer, so

253
00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:05.759
those guys are pretty cool, and you know, you see

254
00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:08.360
so many different people come through, it's cool to be

255
00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:09.000
a part of it.

256
00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:18.759
I'm still kind of stuck on you not naming someone

257
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.600
else paid for the college education, I know, especially.

258
00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:25.080
Right now, Like what are you thinking.

259
00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:27.679
In like five years, it's going to be astronomical, even

260
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though I guess.

261
00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:32.200
Oh, it's it already is. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of

262
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:37.000
had a story. I tell people that my dog that

263
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.639
I had from the time I was fifty till like

264
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mid mid sixties. We named the dog Lulu. But when

265
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I got the dog, I wanted to give it a

266
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real good golf name, and we ended up long story.

267
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.360
I'm gonna cut him down here because I've told it before,

268
00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:57.120
but I need to share it with you. It's like

269
00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:02.639
someone suggested which named the after Tiger's mom because I

270
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:04.960
wanted a real good golf name for my dog, right

271
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:06.919
and I didn't want to divot and I didn't want Bogie.

272
00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.440
It's overused. They're like Tiger's mom, and I'm like, I

273
00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.360
don't get it. Why would I name the dog after

274
00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.799
Tiger's mom, He goes, well, because then you know her

275
00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.720
name is Caltita and they call her Tita, and the

276
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:22.919
dog's name would be Tita Green. Oh my god, that's great.

277
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.320
So I've told every golfer my dog's name is Tita Green,

278
00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:30.879
but her real name is Lulu. Everyone knew her as Nancy.

279
00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:35.919
Do you love the Marian golf Course?

280
00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:40.120
Oh yeah, it's you know, people say all the time

281
00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:43.039
that it's the best inland golf course in the country,

282
00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.559
and I firmly believe it. One of the best things

283
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:48.720
about it I tell guests all the time who haven't

284
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.840
been there before, is that there aren't two holes anywhere

285
00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.600
close to like one another, and there aren't two greens anywhere,

286
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.360
you know, close to being like one another. So you

287
00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.559
have eighteen different holes kind of on this tight property

288
00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.240
less than one hundred and thirty acres. The greens are

289
00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.240
really cool, really tough to read, really tough to putt.

290
00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:09.799
And this time of year, you know, May in October

291
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.919
the two best months to play. And we were in

292
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.440
a great stretch with you know, cool nights and on

293
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.240
the temperatures, you know, hovering in the low sixties. So

294
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.559
you know, they're running fourteen and the wind's blowing a

295
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:26.399
little bit and it's really, really, really tough. So it'll

296
00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:29.080
be interesting to see next year if we get some

297
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:31.559
dry weather in May for the US M You know

298
00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.480
what those kids are able to do, because they hit

299
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:34.039
it so far.

300
00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:34.759
Let's see if.

301
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.759
They can you know, bomb and gouge their way around.

302
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.360
And you know, I got to caddy the last time

303
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:43.240
the US Amateur was there in two thousand and five,

304
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.080
so it'd be cool, you know, maybe fingers crossed to

305
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.159
get to caddy in that next year.

306
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:50.200
Oh, that would be awesome.

307
00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.960
Yeah, a caddy for a California guy the for two

308
00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:57.200
thousand and five, Kevin Chapel, you know UCLA NCAA individual champ,

309
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.320
which was fun. He im original guy missed the cut.

310
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.600
And then I was writing for a small newspaper in

311
00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:07.240
the city. And again, like I said before, I only

312
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.120
lived a mile from the club, and I was in

313
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.080
the shower getting ready to go to work. My mom

314
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:14.240
like knocks on the door. This is I don't think.

315
00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:16.080
I didn't have a cell phone then I don't think.

316
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.519
And so my boss for Mary and called and said

317
00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.600
a caddie didn't show up. Can you meet us on

318
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.960
the first green? So my mom drove me to the

319
00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:24.720
back of the first green and I run up the

320
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.399
little hill and everybody's standing around the green and this

321
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:31.159
Marian member was carrying Kevin Chappele's bag for the first

322
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.480
hole because his caddie didn't show up, and he just

323
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.120
took his bib off and handed it to me and

324
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.639
I put it on. And he had this like fifty

325
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.440
foot putt, huge left to right swinger, and she's like,

326
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:43.480
what do you think. I don't even think he introduced

327
00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:45.080
himself to me. He just asked me to read the

328
00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:47.080
putt and I just pointed to a spot and he

329
00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:48.720
buried it and we were off.

330
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.200
Yeah, it was cool.

331
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:57.720
Oh that's a good one. Wow. Wow. But you didn't

332
00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:04.039
maintain being you know, a caddie as your career, right.

333
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.919
I mean I would have if I could have, But

334
00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.519
then you got married. I got married and my wife

335
00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.840
was a teacher, and when I was writing for the newspaper,

336
00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:15.879
I was covering a ton of high school sports, so

337
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.039
I would go write, you know, go cover a high

338
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.600
school baseball game, then go back to the office write

339
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:23.639
the story, and then help lay out the newspaper. So

340
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.679
I was working pretty much, you know, three pm to

341
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:29.320
three am most nights, and my wife was on the

342
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:32.879
opposite schedule, and she quickly laid down the law and said,

343
00:16:32.919 --> 00:16:35.720
you know, if this is something that we want to pursue,

344
00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:42.039
we probably need to make a change. And I yeah, yeah,

345
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:42.600
for sure.

346
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:43.440
And I was.

347
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.080
I was a coach, a basketball coach, you know, even

348
00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:48.120
when you know, I just graduated high school. So I

349
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.399
loved working with kids. And you know, as a shy person,

350
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.480
I was a little hesitant to kind of dive into teaching.

351
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.519
But you just kind of either I think have it

352
00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:00.919
or you don't. And somehow I'm able to to bond

353
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:03.879
and connect and motivate, you know, ten to twelve year

354
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:05.839
old kids. You know, I have a hard time still

355
00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:10.119
speaking in front of adults, but my time in the

356
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:11.960
classroom is great. You know, it's kind of like the

357
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.240
doors closed and it's it's our own little world. And

358
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.119
you were able to be who you want to be

359
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:17.880
and let the kids see that and let the kids

360
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.559
kind of let down their guard, which is what it's

361
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:21.839
all about. You know, if you create a great environment

362
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.200
where the kids are ready to be themselves, and you know,

363
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.200
to take risks and you're going to get them to

364
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.559
do great things. So I've enjoyed that over the last

365
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:34.039
you know, fifteen plus years. And I still work out

366
00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.279
Marian too as one of the assistant Caddy Masters, but

367
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:37.759
teaching is my full time.

368
00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:41.240
But your tea are you teaching writing to these kids?

369
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:44.359
I taught sixth grade English and language arts, so reading

370
00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.240
and writing for a little more than ten years, and

371
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:49.480
then the last few years I switched over to math

372
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.920
because it was just a little bit less of a workload,

373
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:55.920
and with young kids and another job, it was really

374
00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:58.000
hard to give it everything I had. You know, when

375
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.640
you're grading ninety essays every week and it's a lot.

376
00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:04.720
Oh but Matthew can.

377
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.519
Matthew can manage. You know.

378
00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:09.359
It's it's much easier to grade. But I miss it

379
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:13.400
for sure. I missed teaching Elah.

380
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:16.319
Interesting uh And and you're still writing though, and and

381
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:17.839
out came a book.

382
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:18.920
Out came a book. Yeah.

383
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.960
I took a sabbatical to finish my masters about three

384
00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.920
years ago, and I had some extra time, so I

385
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.519
finished the manuscript and then I shopped it around to

386
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:32.119
a few publishers and this small independent press from Austin

387
00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.559
picked it up. So that was like a year and

388
00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:38.039
a half maybe two years process, just editing and chopping

389
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.720
it down and proofreading, and you know, it was really

390
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:41.559
really tough.

391
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.960
To go back in and reread my work.

392
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.319
I've always hated that, even when I was a student,

393
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.480
just hated reading what I wrote, and when I was

394
00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:53.000
a journalist too. But you know, you're your reputation kind

395
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.839
of stands on the product you put out right, So

396
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:57.200
if you're it's full of you know, grammatical errors that

397
00:18:57.559 --> 00:18:59.680
you know an editor's not catching it too in the morning,

398
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.640
you know, going to hurt your credibility, especially like in

399
00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.279
twenty twenty five with so much social media, people are

400
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:07.640
going to ram you with posts, you know about you

401
00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:10.519
didn't catch this capitalization mistake or you use this word

402
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.400
incorrectly or whatever. So I really tried to force myself

403
00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:17.480
to go back and proofread, you know, as carefully as

404
00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.839
I could, you know, with the help of the publisher,

405
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:25.960
because I wanted it to be a great product. And yeah, yeah,

406
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.000
so I got it done. It came out June seventeenth,

407
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.119
and the response has been great. I'm gonna see if

408
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.119
I can keep pushing it and get into the hands

409
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:37.559
of as many kids as possible. I think it's a

410
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.480
great book for kids who know golf already and as

411
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.920
well as for those who've never picked a club up before.

412
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.240
You know, I try to give you know, as much

413
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.359
explanation on some complicated golf terms as I could and

414
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.599
try not to make it too overwhelming or harder to

415
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.480
break down for the kids. Yeah, that was one of

416
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:54.000
the goals.

417
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:55.000
You know.

418
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.240
We we were so close to the city here and

419
00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:02.000
there's so many young people who are I think, you know,

420
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.119
kind of closed it off from the golf world. The

421
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.119
public golf scene in Philly isn't great, and it's going

422
00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.039
to be. It's gonna be elevated big time once. You know,

423
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.519
the municipal course that's being redone right now, Cobbs Creek

424
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.400
opens up in a couple of years. Gil Hanson, Jim Wagner,

425
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.440
you know, kind of tweaked the routing a little bit,

426
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.240
bringing it back to how it was in nineteen sixteen.

427
00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.160
You know, it's really it was one of the best

428
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.319
municipal courses in the country when it opened up. We

429
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.920
had Hugh Wilson, who designed Marion came and did some

430
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.720
more designing the golf course at Cobbs Creek, and he

431
00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.559
brought in some of the other architects from Philly, William

432
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.480
Flynn and George Thomas and Tillinghast and Crump who did

433
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.279
Pine Valley. All those guys came to the land the

434
00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:46.839
site at Cobbs Creek and you know, gave their two

435
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:48.839
cents about what they could do to build a great

436
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:51.920
golf course. And it was a phenomenal golf course. The

437
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:57.000
land is unbelievable, tons of elevation, changes, cool creek that

438
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.880
flows through the property, and it's going to be, you know,

439
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:05.160
one of the top fifty golf courses in the country,

440
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.680
public or private. I think when it opens it has

441
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:10.400
that potential. And it's so it's the Tiger Woods, says

442
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.799
is involved his learning lab. There's one in Anaheim, California.

443
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.759
His second one opened in the spring here in Philly.

444
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:19.440
So you know, there's a big education piece too, and

445
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.200
we're going to teach They're going to teach the kids

446
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.240
how to play golf. So if I can use this

447
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.279
book to help reach some kids too, then I'm doing something.

448
00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:37.200
Well, well, it's interesting you talk about reaching out kids,

449
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.240
getting kids, but I'm telling you this is an entertaining

450
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.680
book for adults as well, and if you have kids

451
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:47.240
at home, especially if you you know people who are listening,

452
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:50.359
if they if they have a kid that is interested

453
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.240
in golf or want to get interested in golf. The

454
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:56.480
parents want the kids to get interested in golf, and

455
00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.440
they like to read these, uh these you know, teen

456
00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:03.160
novels and whatnot. This is this is a great one

457
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:06.720
because I'm sure there's not a lot of golf content

458
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.799
for teenagers. Yeah, in novel form.

459
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:13.720
Yeah, I thought so too, And you know, I think

460
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:17.079
it's it's also great for hopefully for you know, kids

461
00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.039
who are interested in golf or want to get interested

462
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.640
in golf, but aren't readers. You know, there's I remember,

463
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:25.319
you know, as a as an English Language arts teacher,

464
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:27.720
you know, there were so many kids who just got

465
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:31.240
turned off to reading because we were spending ninety minutes

466
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.480
a day just dissecting every single word an author chose

467
00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:37.160
to use and you know, why did a character do this,

468
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.400
and why did the setting change? And they just got

469
00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:41.519
turned off to reading. They lost their love for it

470
00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:44.440
because they were asked to do so much analysis. And

471
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.000
I really try to write this book, you know, in

472
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.559
a way that the kids could follow the plot without

473
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:52.519
any problems. You know, they didn't have to stop and

474
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.240
reread and you know ask themselves what's happening here? Why

475
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:57.240
did the character do this? It was just you know,

476
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:02.200
an easy light reads.

477
00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:01.400
Could relate to the character.

478
00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.759
There's a an antagonist, you know, this old crotchety member

479
00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:08.559
at the club who battles with the ten year old.

480
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.039
And I think I did a really good job of

481
00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:14.519
creating that old antagonist. His name is Hal Rustin and

482
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.079
he's based on a few guys who I knew at

483
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.960
Marian when I was a kid, and some guys from

484
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.400
you know Edgemont Country Club, which.

485
00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.319
Yeah, well I wanted to I wanted to get into hell.

486
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.000
And like the where is where did he come from?

487
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:29.319
Is this something that you I mean, it's kind of

488
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:34.119
like a movie character. Yeah, where he came from. But

489
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.640
it's like there's got to be something behind this, right Yeah.

490
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:39.839
I won't I won't name any names, but you know

491
00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.759
when I was a kid, when I was a kid,

492
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:47.359
like there were you know members at Marion who like

493
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:50.960
were really old school and you know it was their

494
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.160
way or the highway, and you know, if you were

495
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:56.759
the caddy, they didn't want they wanted you to carry

496
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:58.839
the bag and clean the clubs and give them the

497
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.279
right yardage, and if you said a word you know

498
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.680
other than that, you know, they were going to jump

499
00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.960
down your throat or they were really quick to like

500
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.599
pick out something that you did wrong, you know, or

501
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:11.039
something that you could have done better.

502
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:12.880
So I I.

503
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:17.079
Definitely basically, well, that was like, you know, maybe five

504
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:20.400
percent of the membership. And it's changed over time, right,

505
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:23.400
you know, you know, ninety nine point nine percent of

506
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:24.880
the membership now is phenomenal.

507
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.640
Everywhere you go, you're going to have, you know, some

508
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.519
tough characters.

509
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.200
But when I was a kid, there were a lot

510
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:32.480
of old school guys who again like things a certain way,

511
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:36.480
and just the kind of the cat caddy player dynamic

512
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.279
has changed, I think overall in golf, you know, it's

513
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:44.440
there's more of a a collaborative relationship rather than just

514
00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.359
the you know, the member of the guest you're caddying

515
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.079
for telling you what to do. You know, this is

516
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:50.400
what I want. You know, give me this information now,

517
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.559
don't talk to me, you know. Other than that, I

518
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:54.720
think it's you know, there's a bond most of the

519
00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.759
time that forms pretty quickly, you know, once the member

520
00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.960
of the guests trust you and knows that you know

521
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.680
you're there to help them, especially a Marian where you

522
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:04.680
know there are so many blind shots and it's such

523
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.920
a difficult course that if you can't trust the caddy,

524
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:08.960
no matter how good of a player you are, you're

525
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:09.440
in trouble.

526
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:16.680
Right absolutely. Uh Oh, I had a question in my head,

527
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.519
and now it's not there anymore. Okay, So we can

528
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:23.359
talk about one of the things. That the character the

529
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.400
book is Philly phenom. We haven't even mentioned the name

530
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:31.559
of the book, so you were the editor created that name?

531
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:32.400
That was mine.

532
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.359
I wanted, you know, a catchy title, you know, so

533
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:38.559
the alliteration I think works there and you know, the

534
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:42.680
title of the book comes out at the end, and

535
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.319
I just really thought that it worked.

536
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:44.720
You know.

537
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.400
I was hesitant at first to include the word Philly

538
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.640
because I didn't want to limit the audience. But you know,

539
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.720
the more I thought about it, I didn't think it

540
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.160
was a big big deal, and I think it fits.

541
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:56.640
I don't know what else I would have called the book,

542
00:25:56.799 --> 00:25:56.920
you know.

543
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.880
Yeah, No, the fact that it's Philly and not Philadelphia

544
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.240
or Maryan or anything like that kind of it works

545
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.839
because it could be a person from Philly living anywhere.

546
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.880
I mean, you know, the Philly phenom. It could be that. Yeah,

547
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:14.200
I find it interesting again. You know you talk about

548
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:19.559
that it was partly your story growing up, you pulled

549
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:24.799
from it. But the main character here he would draw

550
00:26:24.920 --> 00:26:28.799
golf holes. He would design golf holes. That part of

551
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:30.720
your story as well. How did that.

552
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:35.359
I'm a terrible, terrible artist, terrible, Like I can't even

553
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:39.119
draw stick people, So I definitely didn't draw any golf holds.

554
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:41.599
But I U to math right, yep.

555
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.000
But I used to, you know, make like a miniature

556
00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.480
golf course in my house, like going up you know,

557
00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:49.680
not up the stairs, going down the stairs and through

558
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:50.559
different rooms and.

559
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:51.359
Down the hallway.

560
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:54.599
And then my backyard was not huge, but big enough

561
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.440
where I could make a couple of little golf holes,

562
00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:59.200
chip and putholes. And then you know, as I got older,

563
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:01.960
you know, maybe like an eighty yard pitch shot. And

564
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:04.039
then in the book, the book starts out, you know,

565
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:07.079
where the lead is out his elementary school kind of

566
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:09.680
hitting balls on the fields there, And I used to

567
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.880
do that too, just go up. Before you know, I

568
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:14.839
was able to go to this COF club, my dad

569
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.240
was a member. He used to go up to our

570
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.000
elementary school in the summer and just knock balls around.

571
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:21.039
And then I got my friends to come and do

572
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.079
it too, and then before we knew it, you know,

573
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:25.240
we made a golf hole from the top of this

574
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.480
hill down to one of the baseball diamonds. We dug

575
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:29.880
a little hole in the pitcher's mound and that was

576
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:35.319
the hole. So we definitely did that too until one

577
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.240
of my friends broke one of the windows in the

578
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:39.200
school and that that story's in the book.

579
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.839
Too, Yes it is. And then we kind of stayed

580
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:44.440
away for for a little while.

581
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.559
And then, you know, I talked about this in the

582
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.000
book a little bit that you know, there was a

583
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:51.200
sign that got put up that said, you know, no

584
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:54.160
golfing on school grounds. After that window got smashed by

585
00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:56.160
one of my buddies. We didn't get in trouble or anything,

586
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.119
but they figured out that it was probably from a.

587
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:00.200
Golf a golf ball.

588
00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:03.000
And by then I was old enough, you know, to

589
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.279
start going to this club, Edgemund Country Club with my dad.

590
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:09.480
And then you know, when I started caddying at Maryan

591
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.680
when I was fourteen, I used to play at Marion's

592
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.240
other course, the West Course on Mondays and in the summer,

593
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:17.440
and I spent a lot of time at this place

594
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.599
that I talked about before, this municipal course in the

595
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.359
city called Cobbs Creek. My dad would drop me off

596
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.640
and I would go and you know, mess around on

597
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.000
the range and the practice screen. And they had two

598
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:30.680
courses too, and one of them was pretty bare bones.

599
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.279
So you used to go out and do whatever you.

600
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.640
Wanted out there, and then you know, kind of hang

601
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.119
out and have lunch in the clubhouse and listen to

602
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.920
stories and people argue about who won this bet, who

603
00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:44.000
lost this bet, and that. Like Edgemont, the course that

604
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.200
the you know, the course in the book is based

605
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.839
off of where there were just so many different people

606
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:51.000
from all walks of life. Cobbs Creek was like that too.

607
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.519
You had people coming from the city, you know, who

608
00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.160
could you know, maybe just afford to pay their green fee.

609
00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:58.119
And then you had people coming from the suburbs who

610
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.240
weren't a member somewhere, you know, but you know we're

611
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:03.480
you know, as a doctor or a lawyer, you know,

612
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.839
playing with you know, just these average people. And it

613
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.319
was a really cool place to learn how to play.

614
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:13.640
Are you still getting free golf at Marion? Is that

615
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.599
why you keep keep pulling carrying bags.

616
00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.839
I'm very very fortunate. You know, I've been an assistant

617
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.400
caddy master since two thousand and nine. So in the summer,

618
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:27.279
if i'm you know, closing as the caddy master, you know,

619
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:29.640
if if people are off the golf course, I'll sneak

620
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:31.839
out and play a few holes from seven o'clock or

621
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.799
so until dark. So that's definitely a big perk, you know.

622
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.920
I I can pretty much play when I want, as

623
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:40.640
long as I don't do anything stupid.

624
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.720
If a Golf Smarter listener finds you at Marion and says, hey,

625
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.440
I heard the podcast.

626
00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:50.480
Yeah I could help them. I could help them out

627
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:51.759
if they if they're nice to me.

628
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.640
Okay, there you go there, right there, you want to

629
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.720
go out and play at Marion. You have an inn now,

630
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.240
just got it to mention Golf Smarter. Yeah.

631
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.039
That's one of the cool things that there's people who

632
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:06.400
come from all over the country and all over the world,

633
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:09.519
you know, yeah, flying on their private plane and play

634
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:10.519
and then fly off.

635
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.759
And it's not a Golf Smarter listener. I can almost

636
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.680
almost be assured of that and if you do have

637
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.559
your own plane, please write to me Golf Smarter Podcast

638
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:23.799
at gmail dot com and let's make a date to

639
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:25.359
go play golf. You can pick me up here at

640
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:30.680
Nossfield and there you go. That would be fun. Have

641
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:32.480
you ever been a golf instructor?

642
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:35.759
No, but I was a high school golf coach for

643
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.119
like six years, so I could, you know, I'm I

644
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:41.279
think my index is a little over five. So I'm

645
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:43.880
on a good day, you know, I can shoot you know,

646
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:46.279
seventy five and on a bad day, I could shoot

647
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:47.559
you know eighty five.

648
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.720
That's golf, Yeah, exactly. You know.

649
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.279
So when I was a I was a high school

650
00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.319
golf coach for six years and my dad was my assistant,

651
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.880
which was pretty cool. I didn't pay him. He was

652
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.720
my volunteer assistant. So you know, we used to help

653
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:06.599
kids on you know, alignment and grip and tons of

654
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:10.039
course management stuff. Not too much on swing, you know,

655
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.079
unless you know, we it was clear that somebody was

656
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:14.599
coming over the top, you know, or doing something you know,

657
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.799
blatantly obvious like that. But you know, as long as

658
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:20.440
you can help the kids, you know, care and focus

659
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:24.119
on every shot and really focus on course management, you're

660
00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.680
going to get them to put up good numbers. Our

661
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:30.519
home course was Marion's second course, the West Course, and

662
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.279
we played a lot at the Cops Creek Municipal Course too,

663
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:35.440
so it was it was fun to get to do

664
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.359
that for six years before we had our third daughter.

665
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:40.400
And my wife said, please stop.

666
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.920
I'm curious because when I go through the book, and

667
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.319
I mentioned this already, but there's a lot of great

668
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.160
little golf nuggets, instructional golf nuggets in the book, and

669
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:59.160
that's why I was asking me if you've taught, because

670
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:02.440
you know, that's a lot of what I'm trying to

671
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:05.759
do here with the podcast is get nuggets from my

672
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.359
own game. Right. I'm just I'm not a golf professional.

673
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.960
I just have a lot of questions. So I look

674
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:14.160
through the gamut of the golf world to get insights

675
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:18.759
and instruction and things. And there are some things boy

676
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:22.079
like here, chapter twenty eight, page two nineteen. When putting

677
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.759
from front to back, the ball usually moved right to

678
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:27.440
left here, but when you get far enough over to

679
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:30.319
the left side, it straightened out and sometimes even sloped

680
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:33.319
ever so slightly the other way. I mean, this is

681
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.759
a subtle way of helping us read the Green. There's

682
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.279
a lot of these things in the book. So where's

683
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:44.599
your primary motivation on this to tell a story or

684
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.759
to give golf instruction? Yeah?

685
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:47.799
Both for sure.

686
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.000
You know, I figured that it'd be boring if I

687
00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.079
just said, okay, let's talk about green reading, right, And

688
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:57.680
I wrote some kind of you know, non fiction instructional

689
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.119
story for ten to fifteen year olds. So I tried

690
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.759
to weave in that those little, you know, instructional bits

691
00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.240
like you mentioned into the story. As Lee was kind

692
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:09.279
of learning the game and getting better at the game.

693
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:11.079
You know, these are things that he picked up from

694
00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:13.799
his dad and from you know, some other people at

695
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.039
the club, and I wanted to you know, tell that

696
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:19.160
in a way that was easy to understand for their

697
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:21.920
reader right through these words. And like I said before,

698
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:24.759
I wanted to make it a light, easy read. So

699
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:27.880
the every word I chose was something that you know,

700
00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:31.920
I really paid great attention to and asked to myself,

701
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:33.559
you know, is this a word a ten year old

702
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:36.039
kid would say? And thankfully, since I've been a sixth

703
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:39.240
grade teacher for so long, you know, I've been observing

704
00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:41.079
you know, ten to twelve year old kids for a

705
00:33:41.119 --> 00:33:43.119
long time, so it was easy for me to write

706
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.960
in a language I think that you know, those kids

707
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:49.079
would understand, and the little things like you know, if

708
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:51.359
you if you're just learning how to read greens right,

709
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.400
and you dump a bucket of water on the green,

710
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:55.359
you know, where's the water go to pool? You know,

711
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:57.960
so you find a low point on the green, and

712
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.759
you know, if you're really unsure of which way putts breaking,

713
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:03.319
you know, maybe pick that way. You know where they

714
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.559
think the water would end up. So little things like

715
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:10.320
that elevation changes, you know, adding and subtracting yardage, and

716
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:12.519
paying attention to the wind. I weave those things in

717
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:16.320
there too, just because those are much more important than

718
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:18.079
you know, where your hands are supposed to be an

719
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.320
impact and you know those kinds of things. Course management,

720
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:24.800
I think, is a way for people to shave strokes

721
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.440
without you know, beating balls on the range for hours

722
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:29.000
and hours and hours, don't you think?

723
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:29.719
Uh?

724
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.480
That was the primary premise of this podcast. I know,

725
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.079
I literally I I had because I was new to golf.

726
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:37.719
I didn't start playing until I was in my forties,

727
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.400
and I was like, wow, I figured, if you understand

728
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:46.760
course management, you know the strategy of golf, and you

729
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.519
have a strong mental game, emotional game that you can

730
00:34:51.159 --> 00:34:53.360
lower your scores faster than if you just work on

731
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:54.400
swing mechanics.

732
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:55.400
Yeah, I remember.

733
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:57.719
That's been supported the entire.

734
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:02.119
Time when I was writing full time. You know, the

735
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:05.519
publisher that I worked for owned like Little Golf magazine

736
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:08.000
in Philadelphia, and I was the staff writer for that

737
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.159
magazine and I interviewed Barbara Tello once.

738
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:14.199
Wow, it was really cool.

739
00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.559
It was me, me, another writer and him, you know,

740
00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:19.360
for like an hour, just firing questions at him. And

741
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:23.320
obviously there are exceptions to this, but he said, if

742
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:25.360
you took away if you went to the range at

743
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:27.559
a tour event and you took away the name plates,

744
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.679
so you didn't know who anybody was, and you just

745
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.559
went up and down, you know, and watched each person

746
00:35:32.719 --> 00:35:35.760
swing the golf club, you know, except for like Jim

747
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.480
Furick or Tiger or somebody like that, you know who

748
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.800
you knew there's what their swing was like, right, You

749
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:43.400
wouldn't know if they were the fifth best player in

750
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.679
the world or the five hundred and fifth best player

751
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:47.880
in the world because they hit the ball so well.

752
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:48.400
You know.

753
00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:52.320
Again, there are exceptions, some are you know, unbelievable ball strikers.

754
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.000
But for the most part, you know they could they

755
00:35:55.039 --> 00:35:57.719
could hit the ball just as well, no matter you know,

756
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:00.400
where they were on the money list, right, and so

757
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:03.039
something had to separate them, you know. And it's you know,

758
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:04.960
the mental game. You know, can you do it when

759
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.880
it matters most, right? And can you manage your waywhere

760
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.239
on the golf course, can you swallow your pride and

761
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.559
you know, play for four rather than you know, kind

762
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:16.079
of going for a pin tucked behind a bunker or

763
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.719
you know, over the water hazard or something. So he

764
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.519
talked about that, and he said, you can't recognize, you know,

765
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.360
the fifth best player from the five hundred and fifth

766
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.519
best player in the world. You know, So something has

767
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:29.760
to separate them. And that's what it is. Mental mental

768
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.400
game for sure.

769
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:35.000
Oh that's an excellent tip. The dad in the book.

770
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:37.719
I'm bouncing on a little the place here. The dad

771
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:43.760
in the book is he's in enigma to me in

772
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:49.679
the sense that he's a great golfer. We're not giving

773
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.599
away the ending. He's a great golfer, but he doesn't

774
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:57.559
play much, right, He doesn't I apparently need to, but

775
00:36:57.719 --> 00:36:59.800
I mean he just he's and he's kind of a

776
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:04.639
loo about the game itself. The main character that the

777
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:08.599
kid is really attached to his grandfather, right, I mean

778
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:13.079
that's the relationship and how his his interests and his

779
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:16.679
passion for golf grows through the grandfather. But the dad,

780
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:18.480
how much of that is your story?

781
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:24.239
That isn't you know? We're pretty close to my story.

782
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.960
My dad, like I said before, played you know all

783
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:30.159
the time from the time as far back as I

784
00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:33.199
can remember, and he was great about bringing me to

785
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:35.480
the golf club or taking me to Cops Creak and

786
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.760
dropping me off there. So I don't know, I think

787
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:40.400
it was just something that kind of developed.

788
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:41.360
I wanted.

789
00:37:41.559 --> 00:37:44.159
I wanted there to be some conflict with you know,

790
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.679
the dad wanted to play, but you know, had other

791
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:50.239
things going on in his life that prevented him from playing,

792
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.639
and that allowed lead to kind of be at the

793
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:54.920
club by himself for a lot of the time because

794
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:56.760
I wanted him to have you know, a bunch of

795
00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:59.960
run ins with the antagonist, and I wanted the great

796
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.039
and father to kind of you know, be a part

797
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:04.159
of that conflict too. And you know, he has a

798
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:09.360
little backstory with hal Rustin, so it's I never I haven't.

799
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:10.559
You're the first person.

800
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:12.280
That's asked me that, and I'm glad I'm able to

801
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.280
reflect on it, because I don't think I intended to

802
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.199
do that when I started out, but it just kind

803
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.639
of developed and I thought it worked well held. You know,

804
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.000
the dad's being pulled a couple different directions raising a family,

805
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.440
you know, working, and you know, he wants to play.

806
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:30.239
He loves the game, but not as much as he

807
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:32.119
did when he was younger, before he had kids. And

808
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:34.199
that's something I'm going through, you know, as a forty

809
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.719
four year old with three kids. You know, it's very,

810
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:40.039
very tough to get away, especially since I have two jobs.

811
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:42.440
To play golf, you know for four hours. So like

812
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.199
I said, I play a lot of like two three

813
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.679
four holes at the end of the night, and then

814
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.039
I try to take a couple of big, big trips

815
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:50.400
a year.

816
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.199
So I try to make account when I do when

817
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:53.840
I do play.

818
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:56.039
And how old are your kids?

819
00:38:56.559 --> 00:39:00.679
I have three girls, thirteen, nine six, and I'm interested.

820
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.239
The younger two like it. I can bribe them with,

821
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.840
you know, riding the golf cart, a soda, a chocolate

822
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.039
chip cookie or something, some ice cream afterwards, but they'll.

823
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.519
All sugar if you come out and play golf with me.

824
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.599
Yeah, we'll hacking around the backyard. And then in the

825
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:21.639
summer we go on vacation to this little place in

826
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.760
the mountains where there's a really cool old William Flynn course.

827
00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:28.199
So they'll hang hang out with me for an hour

828
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:31.079
or so. But I'm not going to force it on them.

829
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:33.400
My oldest had a great swing when she was a kid,

830
00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:36.199
but her friends don't play, so it's hard for her

831
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.000
to kind of, you know, pick pick out that as

832
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:42.039
her sport when she's trying to find her way.

833
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:44.079
Well, we're not going to spoil We're not going to

834
00:39:44.119 --> 00:39:47.639
spoil the story. But the antagonists at the club and

835
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.360
the grandfather there, I thought I thought for sure the

836
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.199
grandfather was going to run them over golf cart. I'm

837
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:57.360
not giving anything away, but I thought for sure this

838
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.559
guy was going to get hit in the head with

839
00:39:58.599 --> 00:39:59.639
a golf club. Yep.

840
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:02.719
Yeah, I figured there could be something like that that

841
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.159
would happen, but I didn't want to make it too.

842
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:10.719
No audience, right, yeah, right, right? And how's the book

843
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:11.440
being received?

844
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:13.440
Uh? Pretty well. You know.

845
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.320
I one thing that I need to start pushing to

846
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:18.559
be honest with you is you know the reviews on Amazon,

847
00:40:18.599 --> 00:40:20.840
which I guess you know are really important, but to me,

848
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.679
you know, I'd rather I'd rather hear you know, great

849
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:25.880
things like you mentioned you know that you enjoyed it.

850
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.239
So I've gotten a lot of positive verbal feedback. I've

851
00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:35.079
won a few awards that I applied for, so but

852
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:41.119
let's see, I won UH Pencraft Awards for UH Summer

853
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.400
Let's see preteen Best Like Summer Fiction Award.

854
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:48.119
I should have these, like a list of them.

855
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:50.440
I just got a third place award for something called

856
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:54.320
the Collective of Independent Publishers and Authors. I've won a

857
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:58.280
couple other local awards, so it's nice to have that

858
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:01.159
confirmation that I did something well. Because even when it

859
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:04.000
got published, right, that was the first show, right, getting

860
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.639
a publisher to pick it up, so I said, okay,

861
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.239
there's something there. And then when we went through the

862
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:10.960
publishing process, you know, I had some of my former

863
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.440
students read it and they said, okay, you know this

864
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.440
is interesting, but we're not golfers, so you know, we

865
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:21.039
don't know, you know, if it's going to be relatable

866
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:24.039
to those kids too. And then you know, when I

867
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.920
submitted it for some more awards, you know, and one

868
00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:30.280
a few I was like, okay, somebody thinks it's you know,

869
00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:34.400
worth reading too. So I'm just happy that that, you know,

870
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.760
all that that hard work has paid off, even if

871
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.920
it's not paying off with dollars and cents.

872
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.800
Well, you know, it depends what you're motivated by doing.

873
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:45.960
And you wrote a book to get a great story

874
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:48.800
out there, and you really did it again. The book

875
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.639
is called Philly Phenom by Nate Oxman. I'm sure it's

876
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.840
available at local bookstores will order it for you if

877
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.119
they don't carry it, but you can. Finally, you can

878
00:41:58.119 --> 00:41:59.639
get it at Amazon, I'm sure.

879
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.519
Yeah, yep, in Amazon and other retailers online, Target, Walmart,

880
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:05.960
all the Barnes and Noble.

881
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:10.239
Excellent, excellent. Well again, I really enjoyed it. And I

882
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:13.119
have a nephew that this book is going to definitely

883
00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:17.440
be going to awesome. He's a twelve year old kid

884
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:22.480
who is incredibly passionate about golf, and I think this

885
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.760
would be this is the perfect book for him. So

886
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:27.639
I'm going to do that. And I'm really glad that

887
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.239
I ended up reading it because I enjoyed it tremendously

888
00:42:31.239 --> 00:42:33.679
and I hope everyone else thinks about it. For this

889
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.480
holiday season. If you have young people in your life

890
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.360
that are interested in golf, get him this book. They'll

891
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:44.199
really enjoy it. Nate, it's been a pleasure speaking to you. Congratulations,

892
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:45.239
good luck for the future.

893
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.320
Thanks Fred, thanks for having me on. This is a

894
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:48.880
lot of fun and appreciate it very much.